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Old 07-30-2013, 09:41 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
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From what I have read, most of you think the Torah (the Five Books of Moses) is the true word of your god.

Do you think the rest of the Bible (the part the Christians call the Old Testament) is also the word of your god, or does it just contain sections written by Jewish scholars like Isiah and Jeremiah?

As for the Talmud, does it really reflect what your god wants or does it simply contain opinions written by Jewish scholars?
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:10 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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As you know I am not Jewish. But I think the Islamic view of the OT is very very similar to the Jewish view.

The OT is not the Talmud. At best it is a very poor attempt at being an interpretation of the Talmud and in reality has virtually no resemblance to the meaning of the Talmud. They are different from each other. The OT is not the word of G_D(swt)

Now that the ice has been broken I will step back and let the Jewish members express their views.
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:52 PM
 
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The five books of Moses are the written Torah and were dictated by G-d to Moses word for word.

The rest of Scripture, Nach (acronyms for Neviim -prophets and Kesuvim-scripture) were written by men, lofty and holy men, through prophesy. Nach provides a blueprint for seeing how Judaism was played out in real life, and provides a basis for Jewish law.

The Talmud is the oral Torah in written form. When G-d taught Moses the Torah, He gave him much more than just the 5 books. The 5 books are the notes, so to speak. The rest of the lecture was passed orally until eventually, due to Roman persecution, the Rabbis of the time saw that it would be forgotten and would need to be preserved for future generations. They first compiled the mishna, and then the Talmud.

It is impossible to understand or follow the Torah without the Talmud.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V-mF...AB86B&index=23
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Old 07-31-2013, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
The five books of Moses are the written Torah and were dictated by G-d to Moses word for word.

The rest of Scripture, Nach (acronyms for Neviim -prophets and Kesuvim-scripture) were written by men, lofty and holy men, through prophesy. Nach provides a blueprint for seeing how Judaism was played out in real life, and provides a basis for Jewish law.
Thanks for the very clear answer, but I am not sure what you mean by "through prophecy". Does that mean the writers of Nach were somehow inspired by your god without actually receiving direct messages from god? I understand that you believe that only Moses could receive direct messages from god.

I read that Elijah could bring dead people back to life, so it appears he had a special connection with god.


Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
The Talmud is the oral Torah in written form. When G-d taught Moses the Torah, He gave him much more than just the 5 books. The 5 books are the notes, so to speak. The rest of the lecture was passed orally until eventually, due to Roman persecution, the Rabbis of the time saw that it would be forgotten and would need to be preserved for future generations. They first compiled the mishna, and then the Talmud.
The video you included was very, very good. Rabbi Wein said the oral Torah was "dynamic" and "subject to creativity", which implies that it was modified by wise men over time.

Does this mean that some Jews, in effect, modify the Talmud by not following it exactly and adapting it to the modern world?
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Old 07-31-2013, 10:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Does that mean the writers of Nach were somehow inspired by your god without actually receiving direct messages from god? I understand that you believe that only Moses could receive direct messages from god.
The prophets received direct messages from G-d, but Moses was the only person who was able to speak to G-d face to face whenever he wished to. In other words, his was the highest level of prophecy.

Quote:
Does this mean that some Jews, in effect, modify the Talmud by not following it exactly and adapting it to the modern world?
The Talmud is never modified. Its teachings are applied to the modern world, though. For instance, in civil damages, what applies to donkeys is applied to cars. The Talmud is a compilation of opinions and arguments of what exactly the Torah wants us to do and how. The arguments are based on the Torah itself and on the words G-d chose to dictate to Moses.
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Old 07-31-2013, 01:53 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
As for the Talmud, does it really reflect what your god wants or does it simply contain opinions written by Jewish scholars?
This is the difference between Rabbinic Judaism and Karaite Judaism. Rabbinic Judaism says that the Talmud is the word of God (the "Oral Torah") while Karaite Judaism says that it is just opinions of Jewish scholars.
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Old 07-31-2013, 02:18 PM
 
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h
Quote:
is is the difference between Rabbinic Judaism and Karaite Judaism. Rabbinic Judaism says that the Talmud is the word of God (the "Oral Torah") while Karaite Judaism says that it is just opinions of Jewish scholars.
There is no Rabbinic Judaism, Karaite Judaism, Orthodox Judaism, Reform or Conservative Judaism, or Messianic Judaism.

There is just Judaism.
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Old 07-31-2013, 02:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fschmidt View Post
This is the difference between Rabbinic Judaism and Karaite Judaism. Rabbinic Judaism says that the Talmud is the word of God (the "Oral Torah") while Karaite Judaism says that it is just opinions of Jewish scholars.
Nobody claims Talmud is THE WORD of God. However, it is believed by many that it represents the word of God and that it interprets it. Basically it tells Jews God's wish.
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Old 07-31-2013, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
The prophets received direct messages from G-d, but Moses was the only person who was able to speak to G-d face to face whenever he wished to. In other words, his was the highest level of prophecy.
Thanks for making that perfectly clear.


Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
The Talmud is never modified.

The Talmud is a compilation of opinions and arguments of what exactly the Torah wants us to do and how.
These two statements seem contradictory. If the Talmud is a "compilation of opinions and arguments", then wouldn't it get modified when new opinions and arguments are put forth?

On the other hand, if the learned people put forth all of the reasonable arguments and opinions hundreds of years ago, then I guess there is no reason to modify the Talmud.
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Old 07-31-2013, 04:25 PM
 
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Quote:
These two statements seem contradictory. If the Talmud is a "compilation of opinions and arguments", then wouldn't it get modified when new opinions and arguments are put forth?
The opinions of Talmudic Rabbis and their arguments are never modified. They are what they are, and they're all based on scripture. The scholar's job is to follow the Talmudic argument and understand them, and if they're qualified to do so, can apply the arguments to modern times. However, today the Shulchan Aruch is used as the basis for Jewish law. The Shulchan Aruch came to halachic conclusions based on the Talmud, thus avoiding the step of the law student to wade through Talmudic arguments.

Last edited by iwishiwerethin; 07-31-2013 at 05:37 PM..
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