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Old 08-20-2013, 09:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
A Jew is not supposed to dime on another Jew...It is to be kept within the community and judged by the Sanhedrin...Am I correct?...

I think "rules are to be broken" when someone steals everything that didn't belong to them~! Some of you all may know what I am referring to.
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Up above the world so high!
45,269 posts, read 88,507,295 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
A Jew is not supposed to dime on another Jew.....
I don't think that's what has been explained at all.

What our more knowledgeable posters have been saying is, Jews are not supposed to do or say anything against a fellow Jew without first consulting their Rabbi for guidance.
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:52 AM
 
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To expand on the question a bit, who does the Rabbi consult for guidance, and what safeguards are in place if the Rabbi is in the wrong?

As explained, it appears that that much like the Catholic Church in that if those in authority have little in the way of checks and balances to prevent them from abusing the system by covering up misdeeds.

I assume that Judaism has been around long enough, and had enough internal disagreements that there is some method of "watching the watchmen", so to speak...

-NoCapo
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovesMountains View Post
I don't think that's what has been explained at all.

What our more knowledgeable posters have been saying is, Jews are not supposed to do or say anything against a fellow Jew without first consulting their Rabbi for guidance.
That is correct. As in all questions of life, a Jew must ask himself "what does the Torah ask of me" before acting.

Quote:
What happens if "there is no qualified Rabbi" to consult~?
Change your life.

There are tens of thousands of qualified posek's (Torah deciders) in the US. If you are a Jew and do not have access to even one of these, then you must look at your own life and ask yourself how you have strayed so far from the Torah and its ways.
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo View Post
To expand on the question a bit, who does the Rabbi consult for guidance, and what safeguards are in place if the Rabbi is in the wrong?

As explained, it appears that that much like the Catholic Church in that if those in authority have little in the way of checks and balances to prevent them from abusing the system by covering up misdeeds.

I assume that Judaism has been around long enough, and had enough internal disagreements that there is some method of "watching the watchmen", so to speak...

-NoCapo
Thanks for asking such a good question, NoCapo. As to your first question, who does the Rav consult if needed? He consults his Rav. Even the Gadol Hador (the Rav/posek held in the highest esteem in the entire world) has a Rav who he consults when needed - which is usually often. These decisions are not made in a vacuum. These decisions are what we call Daas Torah, which could be a thread all in its own. Sadly, most Jews are unaware of Daas Torah and are not holding by it.
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
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Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
Then I expect a ratio from you of ... Jews in prison vs. the general population as a whole. If it's more than .01%, I'll owe you an apology.
I'll start with the Fed.

Jewish 1.773%

http://www.holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm

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Old 08-20-2013, 10:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
I'll start with the Fed.

Jewish 1.773%

http://www.holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm
Since likely 90% or more of the Jews in the US are not Chasidic, I think it's safe to assume that only 10% of that 1.7% of Jews in prison are Chasids. That would make the total population of the US jail system comprised of .0017% Chasidic Jews (somebody check my math, please).

Just in general, it's also interesting to see that Jews make up roughly 3% of the US population but only 1.7% of the Federal prison system. It seems even my non Torah following Jewish counterparts tend to avoid committing Federal crimes, although it's clear to me that the vast majority of Jews in the prison system are non observant Jews.
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
Since likely 90% or more of the Jews in the US are not Chasidic, I think it's safe to assume that only 10% of that 1.7% of Jews in prison are Chasids. That would make the total population of the US jail system comprised of .0017% Chasidic Jews (somebody check my math, please).
Math check! It it 0.0017 as a fraction of the whole, but that equates to 0.17% not 0.0017%.

-NoCapo
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:25 AM
 
3,404 posts, read 2,248,883 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
Thanks for asking such a good question, NoCapo. As to your first question, who does the Rav consult if needed? He consults his Rav. Even the Gadol Hador (the Rav/posek held in the highest esteem in the entire world) has a Rav who he consults when needed - which is usually often. These decisions are not made in a vacuum. These decisions are what we call Daas Torah, which could be a thread all in its own. Sadly, most Jews are unaware of Daas Torah and are not holding by it.
Is there a process or a method for essentially appealing the opinions of your Rabbi without incurring the censure of the community, and more theologically important, God? For example if your Rabbi were to tell you that you should not report his son for raping your daughter, is there someone else you can appeal to or are you spiritually bound to his ruling, even if you believe it conflicts with the scriptures?

I do think that in more hierarchical religions there are often ways to do this, sort of like a union ombudsman. In the congregations form of Christianity I grew up in, you could potentially bring it up to the elders or deacons, but it would become a vicious, politically charged situation. Practically speaking, if you wanted to avoid emnity, your only option was to find a new church. the problem with this is it still leaves the abusive leader in control of a congregation.

-NoCapo
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,353 posts, read 24,079,680 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
Since likely 90% or more of the Jews in the US are not Chasidic, I think it's safe to assume that only 10% of that 1.7% of Jews in prison are Chasids. That would make the total population of the US jail system comprised of .0017% Chasidic Jews (somebody check my math, please).

Just in general, it's also interesting to see that Jews make up roughly 3% of the US population but only 1.7% of the Federal prison system. It seems even my non Torah following Jewish counterparts tend to avoid committing Federal crimes, although it's clear to me that the vast majority of Jews in the prison system are non observant Jews.
Lets do some basic math: 10% of 1.7% is .17% and not 0.0017%. According to the last census Jews were 1.3% of the US. Thus the percentage of Jews just in the Fed system is HIGHER than the percentage of Jews in the US


And another link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sholom_Rubashkin

A Hasidic Jew.


Keep on spouting misinformation.
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