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Old 01-14-2014, 05:21 PM
 
864 posts, read 733,356 times
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Quote:
owever regarding your comment about messianics, I think you're mistaken. I have found that there is a whole body of messianic Jewish (as opposed to Messianic Gentiles which is a separate movement) scholarship out there which is increasingly diverging from the Christian roots with which they began. It's an evolving body of thought. No doubt it started as Christians evangelizing jews, but it seems as if the jews have taken a few ideas (which apparently according to Daniel boyarin, were jewish ideas to begin with) and created a philosophy/theology that is certainly a legitimate form of Judaism while still having some ideas and cultures that are unique to itself.
Messianic Jews, if they're Jews at all, are just Jews caught up in christian claptrap, while displaying Jewish symbols. Don't believe me. Find out for yourself.
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Old 01-14-2014, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
2,538 posts, read 4,688,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
H

Messianic Jews, if they're Jews at all, are just Jews caught up in christian claptrap, while displaying Jewish symbols. Don't believe me. Find out for yourself.
I have. And I actually have an amazing ability to be objective. I stand by my previous assessment of the movement.
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Old 01-14-2014, 05:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pegotty View Post
I have. And I actually have an amazing ability to be objective. I stand by my previous assessment of the movement.
I hope one day you come back to Judaism. You'd have been better off becoming a Muslim. At least they're monotheists.
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Old 01-14-2014, 06:07 PM
 
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I have. And I actually have an amazing ability to be objective. I stand by my previous assessment of the movement.
Your assessment?
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Old 01-14-2014, 06:34 PM
 
Location: small Southern town balabusta
1,129 posts, read 1,430,863 times
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Originally Posted by pegotty View Post
I found this website and have started listening to the debate between Tovia Singer (Jews for Judiasm) and Messianic Jew, Michael Brown. I only got about half way last night before getting sleepy.

There is another one I'm really interested in hearing with Shmuley Boteach (Author of Kosher Jesus) and Michael Brown (Author of The Real Kosher Jesus). These debates are posted on Michael Brown's personal website.

Debate | RealMessiah.com

And Dr. Brown does not call himself a Rabbi. So my thread title is misleading...can't think of a more accurate way to title it.
No. Don't do this.
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Old 01-14-2014, 06:40 PM
 
Location: Long Island
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I looking at the links provided in the OP, I started watching various debates on you tube. In one, Rabbi Tovia Singer was debating David Rosenberg, who leads a messianic congregation. In the debate, Mr. Rosenberg makes several statements that I couldn't agree with more:

1.) Christians are those who "follow the Christ" and
2.) all Christians believe that Jesus in the messiah.

I think Mr. Rosenberg is absolutely correct; if someone believes these things, then they are a Christian.
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Old 01-15-2014, 04:52 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
2,538 posts, read 4,688,464 times
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Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
Your assessment?

Yes, what I said earlier in the thread about the different religious movements:

"I have found that there is a whole body of messianic Jewish (as opposed to
Messianic Gentiles which is a separate movement) scholarship out there which is increasingly diverging from the Christian roots with which they began. It's an evolving body of thought. No doubt it started as Christians evangelizing jews, but it seems as if the jews have taken a few ideas (which apparently according to Daniel boyarin, were jewish ideas to begin with) and created a philosophy/theology that is certainly a legitimate form of Judaism while still having some ideas and cultures that are unique to itself."
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Old 01-15-2014, 07:31 AM
 
864 posts, read 733,356 times
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Quote:
"I have found that there is a whole body of messianic Jewish (as opposed to
Messianic Gentiles which is a separate movement) scholarship out there which is increasingly diverging from the Christian roots with which they began. It's an evolving body of thought. No doubt it started as Christians evangelizing jews, but it seems as if the jews have taken a few ideas (which apparently according to Daniel boyarin, were jewish ideas to begin with) and created a philosophy/theology that is certainly a legitimate form of Judaism while still having some ideas and cultures that are unique to itself."
Since you, admittedly, know nothing about Judaism, how do you know that the philosophy these messianic Jews created are a legitimate form of Judaism?
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Old 01-15-2014, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
2,538 posts, read 4,688,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
Since you, admittedly, know nothing about Judaism, how do you know that the philosophy these messianic Jews created are a legitimate form of Judaism?
I made that judgement based on the blog that I quoted in another thread on Daniel Boyarin's work. He is a world renowned expert in the Talmud. Although some may believe him to be too liberal, historically speaking, he certainly knows more than anyone on this board from what I have seen.

It might be a bit of a stretch to say I know "nothing" about Judaism. I'm a reasonably intelligent person and a prolific reader. I don't read exclusively on Judaism -- I like to see things through the lens of many different view points, but that is probably apparent. Surely you don't believe me to be completely uneducated.

Actually, it's interesting I think. My husband who was raised Christian, saw his religion in a whole new light when looking at it from my perspective. And it wasn't easy for him to see it. There were many disagreements and misunderstandings. Sometimes when you are not trained in a particular thing as a child, you can see things more objectively.
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Old 01-15-2014, 02:51 PM
 
Location: OC/LA
3,831 posts, read 3,698,340 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pegotty View Post
I made that judgement based on the blog that I quoted in another thread on Daniel Boyarin's work. He is a world renowned expert in the Talmud.
Don't think he's going to add any weight to your argument if you want TFF or Iwish to agree with you. As far as they're concerned he's a hippie nutjob and is teaching lies.
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