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Old 09-17-2013, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
2,538 posts, read 4,695,284 times
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I found this website and have started listening to the debate between Tovia Singer (Jews for Judiasm) and Messianic Jew, Michael Brown. I only got about half way last night before getting sleepy.

There is another one I'm really interested in hearing with Shmuley Boteach (Author of Kosher Jesus) and Michael Brown (Author of The Real Kosher Jesus). These debates are posted on Michael Brown's personal website.

Debate | RealMessiah.com

And Dr. Brown does not call himself a Rabbi. So my thread title is misleading...can't think of a more accurate way to title it.
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Old 09-17-2013, 11:10 AM
 
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Since you have said you are looking at the Chrstian "Jews for Jesus" movement as a possibility for you and your family, I think these "debates" are perfect for you to listen to. Rabbi Singer is a perfect representative for what Judaism has to offer, and he has tremendous experience exposing the nefarious lies of the Jews for Jesus movement. I'd love to hear your thoughts once you've competed the series.
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Old 01-08-2014, 08:40 AM
 
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Any updates, Pegotty? Are you still considering becoming a goy?
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Old 01-14-2014, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
2,538 posts, read 4,695,284 times
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Thanks for asking. Maybe you didn't realize it, but the way you worded that was very snarky. I really don't like the negative and unkind attitudes on this forum. Because of that culture here, I'd rather not share my personal beliefs. Regardless of what way I end up turning, the posters here don't genuinely care for one another as humans and Jews. It's a shame.

I did post a very interesting blog post on messianic judaism since it comes up so often on this board...although the messianics that come here also tend to be pretty snarky. Maybe it's just an internet thing. We would all probably act differently face-to-face.
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Old 01-14-2014, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
939 posts, read 1,262,630 times
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I'm sure that theflipflop is aware that you cannot become a goy if you were born to a Jewish mother or had a halachic conversion in the past. This is true no matter what you believe or how you act. Once Jewish, always Jewish. No one can take your Jewishness away from you, pegotty.
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Old 01-14-2014, 03:51 PM
 
3,964 posts, read 3,346,864 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usuario View Post
I'm sure that theflipflop is aware that you cannot become a goy if you were born to a Jewish mother or had a halachic conversion in the past. This is true no matter what you believe or how you act. Once Jewish, always Jewish. No one can take your Jewishness away from you, pegotty.
I may grant you that that could be correct. But for sure she gives up her Olam Haba (world to come) if she gives one inch or creedance to that Jesus mangod myth. She will become dead to her people if she becomes a messianic. Sadly, I think we're too late and have already lost her.
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Old 01-14-2014, 03:54 PM
 
3,964 posts, read 3,346,864 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
I may grant you that that could be correct. But for sure she gives up her Olam Haba (world to come) if she gives one inch or creedance to that Jesus mangod myth. She will become dead to her people if she becomes a messianic. Sadly, I think we're too late and have already lost her.
Pegotty, I know you're trying to fix the complications of a interfaith marriage. But becoming a Chrstian cannot possibly be the correct decision.
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Old 01-14-2014, 04:02 PM
 
864 posts, read 734,146 times
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Quote:
Sadly, I think we're too late and have already lost her.
You never know. Pegotty's way home might lead through messianic christianity. While I would never encourage anybody, Jew or gentile, to worship avodah zarah, I do realize she's in a huge predicament and is trying to find a place for herself and her children to fit with her husband's religion. Pegotty needs to learn and her own pace and discover the emes for herself, and if she's truly searching, it will hit her between the eyes. If she isn't, then that itself is the problem. There's no underestimating the Yiddishe neshama.

Now for the truth:
Messianic Judaism are evangelical christians using Jewish symbols to lure the ignorant into their cult.

Last edited by iwishiwerethin; 01-14-2014 at 04:21 PM..
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Old 01-14-2014, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
2,538 posts, read 4,695,284 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
I may grant you that that could be correct. But for sure she gives up her Olam Haba (world to come) if she gives one inch or creedance to that Jesus mangod myth. She will become dead to her people if she becomes a messianic. Sadly, I think we're too late and have already lost her.
This is a very similar way of thinking as the Christians (but not necessarily messianics). They believe what you think determines where you spend eternity. I, personally, reject this ideaology. Some of my messianic friends (and most Christians) disagree with me. I personally believe that G-d is more concerned with what we do than what we think. What we think evolves over time as we become aware of things we didn't previously know. The world is a big place and G-d is incomprehensible to
Our finite minds.
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Old 01-14-2014, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
2,538 posts, read 4,695,284 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
You never know. Pegotty's way home might lead through messianic christianity. While I would never encourage anybody, Jew or gentile, to worship avodah zarah, I do realize she's in a huge predicament and is trying to find a place for herself and her children to fit with her husband's religion. Pegotty needs to learn and her own pace and discover the emes for herself, and if she's truly searching, it will hit her between the eyes. If she isn't, then that itself is the problem. There's no underestimating the Yiddishe neshama.

Now for the truth:
Messianic Judaism are evangelical christians using Jewish symbols to lure the ignorant into their cult.
What generous and loving response. However regarding your comment about messianics, I think you're mistaken. I have found that there is a whole body of messianic Jewish (as opposed to
Messianic Gentiles which is a separate movement) scholarship out there which is increasingly diverging from the Christian roots with which they began. It's an evolving body of thought. No doubt it started as Christians evangelizing jews, but it seems as if the jews have taken a few ideas (which apparently according to Daniel boyarin, were jewish ideas to begin with) and created a philosophy/theology that is certainly a legitimate form of Judaism while still having some ideas and cultures that are unique to itself.
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