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Old 11-03-2013, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,370 posts, read 24,120,799 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
Compared to our generations before us, we need major improvement.
Compared to what? A shtetl?
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Old 11-04-2013, 06:47 AM
 
3,962 posts, read 3,344,225 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Compared to what? A shtetl?
Our generation is very very weak when it comes to Torah observance. What? 85% of Jews openly abandon Halacha. And the 15% that don't, well let's just say there are plenty of struggles within the 15% of Yidden who are Torah Observant.

When gadolim like Rav Eliyashiv and Rav Yosef are nifter, there simply isn't anyone alive who can replace their greatness. Same when Rav Moshe died a few decades ago. And when the Graw died and when Rav Akiva Eiger died and so on.
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Old 11-04-2013, 07:01 AM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,370 posts, read 24,120,799 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
Our generation is very very weak when it comes to Torah observance. What? 85% of Jews openly abandon Halacha. And the 15% that don't, well let's just say there are plenty of struggles within the 15% of Yidden who are Torah Observant.
You're being optimistic at 15%. Its more like 10% and dropping each generation.
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Old 11-04-2013, 07:32 AM
 
864 posts, read 733,864 times
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Quote:
When gadolim like Rav Eliyashiv and Rav Yosef are nifter, there simply isn't anyone alive who can replace their greatness. Same when Rav Moshe died a few decades ago. And when the Graw died and when Rav Akiva Eiger died and so on.
Each generation has its leaders designed for them. Yiftach, in his generation, was as great as Shmuel in his.
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:25 AM
 
Location: OC/LA
3,831 posts, read 3,702,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Compared to what? A shtetl?
Do you think the historical Jews living in stetls in Eastern Europe were more isolated from modern society or the brainwashed kids in ultra orthodox communities today?
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Do you think the historical Jews living in stetls in Eastern Europe were more isolated from modern society or the brainwashed kids in ultra orthodox communities today?
Jews in shtetels weren't any more or less isolated from modern society as Jews are today. Torah observant Jews are, by default, separate. Our kids aren't "brainwashed." They are raised in the ways of the Torah, just as all Jewish children are meant to be. If you call that "brainwashed" fine.

I'm one happy brainwashed Jew.
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,370 posts, read 24,120,799 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperionGap View Post
Do you think the historical Jews living in stetls in Eastern Europe were more isolated from modern society or the brainwashed kids in ultra orthodox communities today?
Both.
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:08 PM
 
Location: OC/LA
3,831 posts, read 3,702,892 times
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Well both of you two seem to agree on that!


Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
Jews in shtetels weren't any more or less isolated from modern society as Jews are today. Torah observant Jews are, by default, separate. Our kids aren't "brainwashed." They are raised in the ways of the Torah, just as all Jewish children are meant to be. If you call that "brainwashed" fine.

I'm one happy brainwashed Jew.
So modern orthodox Jews aren't Torah observant? I thought that's what the "orthodox" part meant.
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:57 PM
 
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Quote:
So modern orthodox Jews aren't Torah observant?
Yes, they are. What is your point? What does the "modern" part mean?
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Old 11-04-2013, 02:11 PM
 
Location: OC/LA
3,831 posts, read 3,702,892 times
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The fact they are open to secular activities and interacting with the rest of society. I don't see them as "separate." Maybe my perception is wrong (as I have never had significant exposure to ultra orthodox), but that's been my impression and how my rabbi and instructors at the JCC described the difference between ultra orthodox and modern orthodox.
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