U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Judaism
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-07-2013, 07:57 AM
 
Location: OC/LA
3,831 posts, read 3,697,570 times
Reputation: 2214

Advertisements

Since the the other thread got locked for going off topic I will make this the topic of the thread.

How do you guys think this the crisis of Haredi men not working and becoming an economic drain for Israel (and certain areas of the U.S.) can be solved?

It's my understanding the Israel is now pushing for both parents in a household being employed in order to get off welfare, but I'm not convinced that will actually get ultra orthodox men to start working, as it's obviously going to anger the majority of Haredi and relations will further deteriorate.

Somehow you have to convince the Haredi leadership it's a good idea for adults in their communities to work, I just don't have any ideas on how to achieve that. Anyone have any ideas?

Let me make this crystal clear: this thread is about how to get torah observant, haredi, or ultra orthodox adults in Israel to achieve the employment goal of 63% by 2020 set by the Israeli government. http://brookdale.jdc.org.il/_Uploads...im--May-13.pdf

Please do not go off topic and discuss whether this is a valid goal.

Last edited by HyperionGap; 11-07-2013 at 08:28 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-07-2013, 08:00 AM
 
32,055 posts, read 32,950,797 times
Reputation: 14937
The Israeli Government is trying to get more Haredi men to serve in the Israeli army.

Sent from my GT-S7562 using Tapatalk 2
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2013, 08:06 AM
 
3,939 posts, read 3,337,100 times
Reputation: 1245
It's an attempt to destroy the Torah by Zionists, and Hashem will deal harshly with those who hate the Jewish people.

Have a nice day.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2013, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
2,538 posts, read 4,687,820 times
Reputation: 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperionGap View Post
Since the the other thread got locked for going off topic I will make this the topic of the thread.

How do you guys think this the crisis of Haredi men not working and becoming an economic drain for Israel (and certain areas of the U.S.) can be solved?

It's my understanding the Israel is now pushing for both parents in a household being employed in order to get welfare, but I'm not convinced that will actually get ultra orthodox men to start working, as it's obviously going to anger the majority of Haredi and relations will further deteriorate.

Somehow you have to convince the Haredi leadership it's a good idea for adults in their communities to work, I just don't have any ideas on how to achieve that. Anyone have any ideas?

Let me make this crystal clear: this thread is about how to get torah observant, haredi, or ultra orthodox adults in Israel to achieve the employment goal of 63% by 2020 set by the Israeli government. http://brookdale.jdc.org.il/_Uploads...im--May-13.pdf

Please do not go off topic and discuss whether this is a valid goal.
I personally think this is horrible, but for different reasons. I know that in this case the complaint is that the men don't work and are supported by a combination of government and their wives salaries (is this correct?) But as someone who has sacrificed an awful lot to be home and raise my children this really irritates me. If both parents are working, who is raising the children? An institution? Not acceptable, IMO. Children need intimate relationships with their parents in order to learn to be productive, compassionate, members of society. We can clearly see in the US the effect of the day care phenomenon on our culture. In my own perfect world, I would have both parents actively participating in the role by being self-employed and apprenticing their children in the family business or farm.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2013, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,353 posts, read 24,079,680 times
Reputation: 8864
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperionGap View Post

How do you guys think this the crisis of Haredi men not working and becoming an economic drain for Israel (and certain areas of the U.S.) can be solved?

It's my understanding the Israel is now pushing for both parents in a household being employed in order to get off welfare, but I'm not convinced that will actually get ultra orthodox men to start working, as it's obviously going to anger the majority of Haredi and relations will further deteriorate.

Somehow you have to convince the Haredi leadership it's a good idea for adults in their communities to work, I just don't have any ideas on how to achieve that. Anyone have any ideas?

Let me make this crystal clear: this thread is about how to get torah observant, haredi, or ultra orthodox adults in Israel to achieve the employment goal of 63% by 2020 set by the Israeli government. http://brookdale.jdc.org.il/_Uploads...im--May-13.pdf

Please do not go off topic and discuss whether this is a valid goal.
Firstly, your OP needed a correction so its bolded. Israel doesn't have a marriage penalty like the US does. Israeli society is setup so there is plenty of family time in a given week. Secondly I'll start off with a link.

Quote:

Maimonides warns sternly, “one who studies Torah professionally and fails to
work – counting on charity for a livelihood – desecrates God’s name, shames the
Torah, extinguishes the flame of religion, harms himself and abdicates his
place in the World to Come... Torah that is not accompanied by work has no
staying power and inevitably draws one into sin. As Rabbi Yehuda taught in the
Talmud (ibid.), the man who fails to learn a profession or to work – ultimately
will come to steal from others.”
Healing haredi work ethics | JPost | Israel News
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2013, 08:41 AM
 
Location: OC/LA
3,831 posts, read 3,697,570 times
Reputation: 2214
I changed the OP, but I thought I read that Israel was considering requiring both parents to work in order to receive government assistance. I'll see if I can find it.

Personally, I think the priority should be on changing the education. Even if they want to actually work, how can kids graduating from HS get a good job if they don't have the proper education or training. I think boys stop learning science, english, and math at 8th grade to focus more on religious study. This has to change imo.


That was a very interesting article. Clearly this is a huge problem as well:

"The minute a 35-year-old kollel man attempts to enter the working world, municipal taxes triple, health care and education costs double, and the study stipends end. What high-enough-paying job can he possibly obtain, without any skills relevant to today’s hi-tech workplace, to offset these automatic leaving-yeshiva losses?"

This is something the rest of society DOES have control over. You can't really complain about a problem if you're the one enabling it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2013, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,353 posts, read 24,079,680 times
Reputation: 8864
Quote:
Originally Posted by pegotty View Post
I personally think this is horrible, but for different reasons. I know that in this case the complaint is that the men don't work and are supported by a combination of government and their wives salaries (is this correct?) But as someone who has sacrificed an awful lot to be home and raise my children this really irritates me. If both parents are working, who is raising the children? An institution? Not acceptable, IMO. Children need intimate relationships with their parents in order to learn to be productive, compassionate, members of society. We can clearly see in the US the effect of the day care phenomenon on our culture. In my own perfect world, I would have both parents actively participating in the role by being self-employed and apprenticing their children in the family business or farm.
You're judging Israel by Western values instead of Asian values. Israel has a strong family ethic and leaves plenty of time in a given week for family time. Israeli children get plenty of TLC.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2013, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
2,538 posts, read 4,687,820 times
Reputation: 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
You're judging Israel by Western values instead of Asian values. Israel has a strong family ethic and leaves plenty of time in a given week for family time. Israeli children get plenty of TLC.
Good to hear. What does a typical week schedule look like?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2013, 01:28 PM
 
Location: OC/LA
3,831 posts, read 3,697,570 times
Reputation: 2214
It looks to me like ~ 35% of the Israel's population is of Ashkenazi descent. Did they assimilate and adopt Asian values, or did they retain their western value system, but are simply a minority?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2013, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,353 posts, read 24,079,680 times
Reputation: 8864
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperionGap View Post
It looks to me like ~ 35% of the Israel's population is of Ashkenazi descent. Did they assimilate and adopt Asian values, or did they retain their western value system, but are simply a minority?
Yes the Ashkenazi population is that low and it was extremely lower 65 years ago. It goes to show you that the majority was (and still is) Sephardic/Mizrahi. But since there are nearly no Sephardic/Mizrahi to pull from anymore their numbers will continue to grow. Thus further generations will look more and more Ashkenazi. That number goes to show you that the vast majority were from the area in and around Israel and not Europe. The family ethic has always been there, but was made stronger with Socialism brought with the Zionists who came from Germany.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Judaism
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top