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Old 11-11-2013, 04:52 AM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,364 posts, read 24,104,739 times
Reputation: 8869

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I've bee on C-D for years and have seen and been in numerous discussions. This forum for some reason has always had heated discussions. This forum is labeled Judaism and not labeled a certain level of it nor a certain sect. In my view it should be open to discuss all levels of it without being beaten down for what level one is in. But now over the past few days its hit a new low that I've never seen in any other religion sub-forum. A few people here are now throwing in the Race Card. And what makes it worse is that it's Jews doing it to other Jews. And these Jews who are throwing down the Race Card are spouting it as Jew Hate. They are stating that if one doesn't follow Judaism in their way, then the rest of us are not Jews. They've called us soulless, g_dless and numerous other things. One of them even stated in a past post that most of the Jews who died during the Holocaust deserved it and seem to not understand that they are descended from those same people.

Enough is enough. Can't we just discuss the topics on hand as they are without them going from a discussion to a "My view is right and everyone else is wrong mode". Its almost like and old saying from years gone by related to coin tosses: "Heads I win, Tails you lose".

Discuss as needed, but if it spirals into a Jew Hate thread I will request it be closed down and not deleted.
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Old 11-11-2013, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
2,538 posts, read 4,691,187 times
Reputation: 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
I've bee on C-D for years and have seen and been in numerous discussions. This forum for some reason has always had heated discussions. This forum is labeled Judaism and not labeled a certain level of it nor a certain sect. In my view it should be open to discuss all levels of it without being beaten down for what level one is in. But now over the past few days its hit a new low that I've never seen in any other religion sub-forum. A few people here are now throwing in the Race Card. And what makes it worse is that it's Jews doing it to other Jews. And these Jews who are throwing down the Race Card are spouting it as Jew Hate. They are stating that if one doesn't follow Judaism in their way, then the rest of us are not Jews. They've called us soulless, g_dless and numerous other things. One of them even stated in a past post that most of the Jews who died during the Holocaust deserved it and seem to not understand that they are descended from those same people.

Enough is enough. Can't we just discuss the topics on hand as they are without them going from a discussion to a "My view is right and everyone else is wrong mode". Its almost like and old saying from years gone by related to coin tosses: "Heads I win, Tails you lose".

Discuss as needed, but if it spirals into a Jew Hate thread I will request it be closed down and not deleted.
I am mostly a hopeful person and a person that thinks there is something to be learned from all people, especially if their beliefs differ from ours. But for that to happen, everyone in the discussion has to believe there is something to be learned from the opposing view point. If we think that it is our job to convince others to think like us, there is no longer a discussion, it's a battle. We all have strong beliefs, particularly about our understanding of G-d. But the thing is, we are all human and only have a limited understanding of G-d. Our intellectual ability to understand is limited and our experiences with G-d are necessarily limited due to our physical circumstances. Given these things, we should all keep an open mind about the perspective of other people in spiritual matters.
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Old 11-11-2013, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,113,999 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pegotty View Post
But the thing is, we are all human and only have a limited understanding of G-d. Our intellectual ability to understand is limited and our experiences with G-d are necessarily limited due to our physical circumstances.
Do you believe that your 'holy book' is the absolute, final, and exact word of your god?

Many people would answer 'Yes' to my question. These people think they have a very good understanding of their god and they do not think they have much to learn from others who do not share their beliefs.

However, we can learn a lot from them, which is the reason I come to these DGs.
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Old 11-11-2013, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
2,538 posts, read 4,691,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
Do you believe that your 'holy book' is the absolute, final, and exact word of your god?

Many people would answer 'Yes' to my question. These people think they have a very good understanding of their god and they do not think they have much to learn from others who do not share their beliefs.

However, we can learn a lot from them, which is the reason I come to these DGs.
I believe that G-d actually spoke to Moshe and gave him the Torah, that he chiseled the first ten into stone and that Moshe communicated all 613 to the Israelites and they have been passed down through the generations. However, there are many different versions of the scriptures and from what I know, there are contradictions. I don't believe that every word written in the Bible is spoken through the mouth of G-d. Prophets surely heard from G-d, because their prophecies were realized. I don't believe the Bible is a "magical" book. it is a collection of historical documents of people who have spoken with G-d and the stories of their lives, the good and the bad, that we can learn from.

There are plenty of things that we can't prove in life. For a while, I was actually concerned that maybe G-d didn't exist and maybe all of these stories are just tales. But, because of some personal direct experiences with G-d answering my prayers through miracles, I know that G-d surely does exist. And He does have a personal relationship with those who want it.
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Old 11-11-2013, 11:49 AM
 
3,962 posts, read 3,342,692 times
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Three kinds of Jews:

1. Those that accept the Torah as truth and follow that truth.
2. Those that accept the Torah as truth and do not fully follow its tenets, but nonetheless accept them as truth.
3. Those that make up their own version of right and wrong.

Did I miss any?
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Old 11-11-2013, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
2,538 posts, read 4,691,187 times
Reputation: 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
Three kinds of Jews:

1. Those that accept the Torah as truth and follow that truth.
2. Those that accept the Torah as truth and do not fully follow its tenets, but nonetheless accept them as truth.
3. Those that make up their own version of right and wrong.

Did I miss any?
What question is this answering? Sorry, you'll have to spell it out for me. :-)
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Old 11-11-2013, 12:06 PM
 
3,962 posts, read 3,342,692 times
Reputation: 1246
Quote:
Originally Posted by pegotty View Post
What question is this answering? Sorry, you'll have to spell it out for me. :-)
The very core of being Jewish is to accept that there is right and wrong. The OP assumes it's acceptable to be in the middle.
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Old 11-11-2013, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,364 posts, read 24,104,739 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
The very core of being Jewish is to accept that there is right and wrong. The OP assumes it's acceptable to be in the middle.
Since YOU are assuming to make a choice for the OP, from where are you getting this assumption for you to make that choice for the OP?
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Old 11-11-2013, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
2,538 posts, read 4,691,187 times
Reputation: 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
The very core of being Jewish is to accept that there is right and wrong. The OP assumes it's acceptable to be in the middle.
First of all, read this: The Courage to Grow - A message for Yom Kippur Rabbi Sacks It's long but worth the effort.

Second of all, he didn't say anything about his beliefs in this post. He was addressing ground rules for conversation.

And thirdly, I think you need a #4. Those who actively seek after G-d for what is right and wrong with an open mind and heart.

This kind may question authority, but why not? Authority has been downright evil in some generations. G-d gave us all minds for a reason, not that we should follow blindly without intelligence.
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Old 11-11-2013, 12:54 PM
 
864 posts, read 733,701 times
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Quote:
This kind may question authority, but why not? Authority has been downright evil in some generations. G-d gave us all minds for a reason, not that we should follow blindly without intelligence.
Which is why it's imperative for Jews to learn Torah--just so they can realize when somebody advocates anti-Torah views.
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