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Old 11-13-2013, 11:56 AM
 
3,966 posts, read 3,350,047 times
Reputation: 1246

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Quote:
Originally Posted by veggienut View Post
What do you mean by "kosher kesuba"~? It's a paper right, so why does the paper need to be kosher~?
Kosher, as in halachically acceptable. Yes, it's a paper, but if not filed out or created properly, it is worthless. It must contain certain elements. It requires proper witnesses, etc.

There are entire volumes of material written by our sages on the subject.
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:46 PM
 
Location: OC/LA
3,831 posts, read 3,709,283 times
Reputation: 2214
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
What is crazy? 462 out if how many? What if this only represents 1% of all divorces and you are being duped with an incomplete picture of what is really going on?
The article said 1 out of 2 ultraorthodox were given a get refusal. Last I checked, that's not 1%. Secondly, I also agree with this point the article made:
“[Progress] can’t just be about galvanizing protests for a particular person, but rather about making sure the next 500 people don’t go through this particular horror.”
You are always talking about how the ultra orthodox population is growing in size. This is just going to mean more and more women whose lives are ruined.

Finally, I actually have no issue if ultra orthodox want to keep the current marriage system (in the U.S). While, I may not agree with it and would never wish it upon anyone I actually care about, there is absolutely nothing stopping an ultra orthodox woman from getting a civil divorce and telling the whole community to screw off. Just like any other contract, those woman (supposedly) knew what it was they signed up for when they got married and what would be required of them from to get a divorce. On the other hand, in Israel, where the religious courts are the binding court of law for marriage disputes, I think that is absolutely absurd.


Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
And how many of the 462 agunos are shaking down their husbands for money and withholding visitation rights?
If I am understanding you correctly, that's a civil issue and should be dealt with in a civil court. Not used to hold someone hostage in a rabbinic court.


Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
Anybody with a whit of common sense knows that there are two sides to every divorce. So don't eat your heart out.
“When dealing with contentious divorces, the first thing people say is, ‘There are two sides to every story.’ There are not two sides in abuse.”
Good thing you read the article.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
True, there are husbands who withhold gets for no reason, but that's a result of their controlling personalities and certainly is not a problem with the system.
The fact there is no system in place for anyone or group (including a beit din) to supersede the "husbands who withhold gets for no reason" seems to be problematic to me. Ethically, why do you think that's ok? And don't say, because that's what our sages said. Why do YOU think it's morally acceptable for a husband to withhold a get under any and all duress.
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,380 posts, read 24,159,037 times
Reputation: 8875
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
I have a solution. If the guarders of the Torah (Observant Jews) are doing such a "lousy job" of guarding the Torah (which our fellow posters have tried to make clear with all these threads about how terrible Orthodox Jews are), how about our non Observant Jewish friends join us in this important duty and help us out? Stop trying to throw out the baby with the bath water, and help us improve the water. You can all start by stopping spreading all this hatred and lashen hara against our fellow Jews with hateful threads like this one. Join a Torah class. Light candles on Friday night. Davening in a proper minyan during the week. You can do this. :-)
You know what's funny that our Orthodox brethren fail to mention is that if it's the other way around, the male does not have to get a Get. Why? Under Heter Meah Rabbanim a male can have multiple wives.

http://haemtza.blogspot.com/2013/10/agunos-good-intentions-gone-wrong.html
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Old 07-29-2014, 02:27 PM
 
1 posts, read 372 times
Reputation: 10
462? Really are you kidding? Most ridiculous "survey'' I've ever seen. It's like the guy asked a couple of people in his neighborhood and tried to make what they said sound official.
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