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Old 12-20-2013, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
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I can't recall if this topic has been discussed before.

The recent controversy over the Duck Dynasty TV show made me wonder if Orthodox Jews and Fundamentalist Christians had similar ideas about homosexuality.

Do any of you have any comments about this?

 
Old 12-21-2013, 05:10 PM
 
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The Torah is very clear about homosexuality. For two men to engage in said behavior is a capital crime. By the way, male homosexuality is one of the noachide laws as well, and is a capital crime for gentiles, too. The Torah is not politically correct and does not change. Sorry if that offends anybody.

Female homosexuality is not forbidden but is considered to be following the ways of the gentiles.

But you knew the answer, didn't you?
 
Old 12-21-2013, 08:24 PM
 
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By the way, what orthodox Jews think is irrelevant. The Torah's views have relevance, that's all.
 
Old 12-22-2013, 06:06 AM
 
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Can't stop homosexuality, nor why would we want to? Gay marriage seems a bit unnecessary, though, as long as gay couples get equal rights with regards to work benefits, etc. The main thing is that all people, regardless of their sexual orientation, should be treated with dignity. But let's also not pretend that G-d didn't "call out" the behavior as something different and not the norm. Why He did so, however, remains a mystery to me.
 
Old 12-22-2013, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
The Torah is very clear about homosexuality. For two men to engage in said behavior is a capital crime.
If males engaging in homosexual acts is a "capital crime", does that mean it is punishable by death?

I have never heard of an Orthodox Jew being executed for that reason, so I guess they are given some other punishment, like being told to leave their congregation or something. Or maybe they treat it like the Catholics and just sweep it under the rug. Has male homosexual behavior ever been a problem in your congregation?


Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
Sorry if that offends anybody.
A ban on homosexual behavior does not offend me at all. I don't agree with it, but since many societies have such a ban, it appears to be a reasonable idea.


Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
But you knew the answer, didn't you?
No, I didn't. I have heard the Bible can sometimes contradict itself, so I don't know how different people interpret it.
 
Old 12-22-2013, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,114,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
Can't stop homosexuality, nor why would we want to? Gay marriage seems a bit unnecessary, though, as long as gay couples get equal rights with regards to work benefits, etc. The main thing is that all people, regardless of their sexual orientation, should be treated with dignity. But let's also not pretend that G-d didn't "call out" the behavior as something different and not the norm. Why He did so, however, remains a mystery to me.
Flipflop, thanks for addressing my question. Your comment makes a lot of sense to me.

Hey, now that I have had two Jews give me their opinions, I am curious to hear the third opinion.

(That is supposed to be an attempt at a joke.)
 
Old 12-22-2013, 03:15 PM
 
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Quote:
If males engaging in homosexual acts is a "capital crime", does that mean it is punishable by death?
Yes.

Quote:
I have never heard of an Orthodox Jew being executed for that reason, so I guess they are given some other punishment, like being told to leave their congregation or something. Or maybe they treat it like the Catholics and just sweep it under the rug. Has male homosexual behavior ever been a problem in your congregation?
Homosexual behavior is nonexistent in orthodoxy. Everybody grows up, gets married, and procreates. If anybody has homosexual tendencies, they'd keep it quiet, just as they would their tendencies to lust strange women.

Since the destruction of the Temple and the dissolution of the Sanhedrin, capital punishment cannot be meted out, even if one were to deserve it. The severity of the punishment, though, is indicative of the severity of the sin. Homosexual behavior is one of the three cardinal sins in Judaism (and in Noachidism) right up there with idolatry and murder.

Quote:
No, I didn't. I have heard the Bible can sometimes contradict itself, so I don't know how different people interpret it.
The Torah is quite clear about this topic. No room for doubt.
 
Old 12-22-2013, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
If males engaging in homosexual acts is a "capital crime", does that mean it is punishable by death?
It is not up to Man to make the judgment, but up to G_d to make that call.
 
Old 12-25-2013, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Camberville
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Rabbi Shmuley recently wrote a piece in response to Duck Dynasty on Judaism and homosexuality: Rabbi Shmuley on “Duck Dynasty I have mixed feelings about Rabbi Shmuley on the whole, but I love how he wrote this piece (and I wish more people who use religion as a reason to be against gay marriage would take this approach).

Quote:
No country in the world is more obsessed with homosexuality than America. And judging from the constant religious attacks against gays, you would think it’s the only sin in the entire Bible. One might easily forget the fact that the word “abomination” appears approximately 122 times in the Hebrew Bible, including eating nonkosher food (Deuteronomy 14:3), a woman returning to her first husband after being married in the interim (Deuteronomy 24:4) (did anyone say Elizabeth Taylor?) and bringing a blemished sacrifice on God’s altar (Deuteronomy 17:1). Proverbs goes even further, labeling envy, lying and gossip “an abomination to the Lord” (3:32, 16:22). Still, if you’re religious, the only abomination you’ve ever heard of is homosexuality, which gives you the right to compare it to man-on-dog relations 24/7.

....snip...

So if religious people were serious about their faith, they would treat those who smoke on the Sabbath with the same opprobrium they reserve for gays. The fact that they don’t shows that their opposition to homosexuality has little to do with religion and a lot to do with homophobia.
Lots of things are "wrong" according to any number of religious traditions. It is wrong in our faith to eat pork, but you would never find a Jew lobbying congress to shut down the pork industry. I think that's a big reason why you find that Jews have historically been more welcoming of the homosexual community. Synagogues might not be willing to perform marriages, but most are welcoming of homosexuals in the same way that all that break any of the 613 Commandments in the Torah (which is everyone, by the way). Homosexual relations is no worse better or worse of a sin than just being so gosh darn stubborn and refusing to burn down Mumbai (Deut 13:17 referring to the obligation to burn down the cities of idol worshippers).

Another commandment that homosexuals break by the nature of things (as Rabbi Shmuly points out) is the requirement to have children. In Conservative, Reform, and perhaps even modern Orthodox synagogues, one can fulfill that requirement through IVF, egg donation, adoption, and other family building procedures. For the Orthodox, adoption is a mitzvah but it does not fulfill the obligation to have biological children. I'm straight and cannot have biological children - even if it was possible to fulfill all other 613 (which it's currently not - many deal with animal offerings), I would still be just as much as a sinner as a gay person who engages in intimate relations with someone they love!
 
Old 12-25-2013, 11:46 AM
 
864 posts, read 733,864 times
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QUOTE]It is wrong in our faith to eat pork, but you would never find a Jew lobbying congress to shut down the pork industry.[/quote]

Eating pork is not one of the Noahide laws, which gentiles are just as obligated to keep as Jews the Torah.

Quote:
I think that's a big reason why you find that Jews have historically been more welcoming of the homosexual community
Historically, there has never been homosexual communities, Jewish or otherwise.
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