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Old 01-07-2014, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
939 posts, read 1,261,961 times
Reputation: 760

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Quote:

1) Why is it necessary to come up with all of these absolutely insane proclamations?
1.) Daas Toyreh (Hebrew: Da'at Torah, or "Knowledge of Torah"): The more you (read: male ultra-Orthodox leader) know about the Torah (Oral Torah), the more you can be trusted to make decisions on any subject matter, not only halachic matters, but about any worldly topic, whether it be what brand of socks to buy, to whether the Earth revolves around the Sun. This concept is based upon the belief that the Torah contains all knowledge that exists, including the orbital period of undiscovered extrasolar planets and the cure for cancer.
Quote:

2) How do these ultra orthodox communities have any support from reform, conservative or even mainline modern orthodox denominations? The amount of corruption, female oppression, and child abuse is sickening in these areas. I understand why insiders won't speak out against it as most of them are brainwashed and/or scared into silenced, but I would think that other Jews would take a harder stand against this kind of rampant abuse.
2.) Achdut (Jewish unity) is a one-way street. Reform, Conservative, and Modern Orthodox rabbis might disagree with ultra-Orthodox (self-described "Torah Judaism") rabbis who ban iPhones and reading about evolution, but they will continue to accept their Judaism as 100% valid (albeit narrow-minded). They will trust their kosher certifications, conversions, marriages, religious calligraphy and religious material.

All Jewish communities recognize the ultra-Orthodox "Torah Jews" as one of their own and therefore support them financially by using their religious services and buying their religious items and literature. They often also support charities that take care of ultra-Orthodox Jews because, well, most people feel a family obligation to support their own kind, and due to the obligation to give tzedakah to fellow Jews.

Ultra-Orthodox abuse doesn't get reported for two reasons:
1.) Many ultra-Orthodox Jews think that telling secular non-Jewish authorities about crimes in their community is "mesirah" : ratting out Jews to the anti-Semitic government, a violation of Jewish law. The best they can do is ask their rabbi about what to do and hope he does something about it. Now if the criminal is the rabbi himself or some person with high standing in the community, you're out of luck. People who have reported crimes to the police are often shunned, not welcome at synagogues, their children can't find a shidduch (marriage partner), etc.

2.) It's considered airing dirty laundry, a chillul hashem (desecration of God's name / the Jewish community) that might cause anti-Semitism. Jews doing bad things might lead to less people becoming observant or cause observant Jews to leave Judaism, or cause anti-Semites to persecute Jews.

 
Old 01-07-2014, 03:37 PM
 
3,962 posts, read 3,344,225 times
Reputation: 1246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Where is the data to support this ludicrous self hating claim? Six examples and you impugn an entire community numbering in the millions? I hope others can see through this and see your true agenda.
 
Old 01-07-2014, 04:22 PM
 
864 posts, read 733,864 times
Reputation: 251
Quote:
Where is the data to support this ludicrous self hating claim? Six examples and you impugn an entire community numbering in the millions? I hope others can see through this and see your true agenda.
Six lies. Don't you be starting up, FFB. He'll call the police on you.
 
Old 01-07-2014, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,369 posts, read 24,115,390 times
Reputation: 8869
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
Six examples and you impugn an entire community numbering in the millions? I hope others can see through this and see your true agenda.
Six examples of over 50 people that you consider Torah Observant Jews. They impugn the entire community of millions by their actions. We as Jews are always under a microscope and each time a Torah Observant Jew does a crime it makes international news. Their actions cause much more damage than the individual actions. And where is their Rav in protecting the innocent from these predators? But here you sit protecting the image of these criminals.

So I ask you a similar hypothetical question that another poster asked you in a different thread. And please respond with the truth and not a worthless answer you gave him.

If your son was anally raped by a TOJ, how many pieces of silver would be needed to be paid for the crime done for you to consider the punishment balanced with the crime? Please explain your answer so all denominations will understand how you came to your conclusion.

Last edited by Pruzhany; 01-07-2014 at 07:52 PM..
 
Old 01-07-2014, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,369 posts, read 24,115,390 times
Reputation: 8869
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
Six lies.
Please show us your proof that the six links listed are all lies. You made the statement, now show your work on how you know.
 
Old 01-07-2014, 07:13 PM
 
3,962 posts, read 3,344,225 times
Reputation: 1246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Six examples of over 50 people that you consider Torah Observant Jews. They don't impugn the entire community of millions by their actions. We as Jews are always under a microscope and each time a Torah Observant Jew does a crime it makes international news. Their actions cause much more damage than the individual actions. And where is their Rav in protecting the innocent from these predators? But here you sit protecting the image of these criminals.

So I ask you a similar hypothetical question that another poster asked you in a different thread. And please respond with the truth and not a worthless answer you gave him.

If your son was anally raped by a TOJ, how many pieces of silver would be needed to be paid for the crime done for you to consider the punishment balanced with the crime? Please explain your answer so all denominations will understand how you came to your conclusion.
You're not a well man. Nebach.
 
Old 01-07-2014, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,369 posts, read 24,115,390 times
Reputation: 8869
Quote:
Originally Posted by usuario View Post


Ultra-Orthodox abuse doesn't get reported for two reasons:
1.)...

2.) It's considered airing dirty laundry, a chillul hashem (desecration of God's name / the Jewish community) that might cause anti-Semitism. Jews doing bad things might lead to less people becoming observant or cause observant Jews to leave Judaism, or cause anti-Semites to persecute Jews.
The UO doesn't care about anti-Semitism. The only people who cry anti-Semitism are primarily secular American Jews. The UO has an image to protect and portraying that image is what is important. Lets take the Lubavitch as one example, They have publically claimed more than once that a few of their past leaders were the mashiach. Instead of casting them out at messianic, they are allowed to balance the scales by the use of Chabad. Thus portraying the image of being pious TOJs. They revere the photo of Schneerson and hang it everywhere as commonly as Christians do with a photo of JC.
 
Old 01-07-2014, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,369 posts, read 24,115,390 times
Reputation: 8869
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
You're not a well man. Nebach.
You can insult me all you want, but the door was opened for this question in the "Ask a Jew thread". And your responses fall in line with this thread.

I'll give you a head start. Here is Shemot (Exodus) which covers an Eye for an Eye

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0221.htm




For anyone who doesn't know what a Nebach is, it comes from the word Nebbish which means pitifully ineffectual
 
Old 01-07-2014, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,369 posts, read 24,115,390 times
Reputation: 8869
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
For starters, you'd have to stop basing your questions based on information found on anti-semitic websites.
Please please please list them so we all know better for the future.
 
Old 01-07-2014, 08:11 PM
 
Location: small Southern town balabusta
1,136 posts, read 1,433,438 times
Reputation: 756
I love my people, but this conversation (and many) is so odd to me. That's all. I'm sure you'll take that with a grain of salt.
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