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Old 01-15-2014, 10:29 AM
 
Location: OC/LA
3,831 posts, read 3,702,892 times
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TFF you claimed that

Talmud cannot be learned in a University, particularly one like Berkeley whose halls are filled with anti Semites. Talmud can only be learned from a respected Rabbi, or a Jew who has an unbroken line of oral transmission from Mount Sinai.

Talmud can only be transmitted in the beis medrash (Jewish study hall) or the Yeshiva. All other forms of Talmudic teaching is sheker (a halachic lie).


I'm honestly surprised you can say that with a straight face. You're trying to discredit all of the research, writing, and academic discussions of hundreds of Jewish Scholars simply because they're not ordained (orthodox) rabbis ?
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Old 01-15-2014, 10:41 AM
 
864 posts, read 733,864 times
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Quote:
I'm honestly surprised you can say that with a straight face. You're trying to discredit all of the research, writing, and academic discussions of hundreds of Jewish Scholars simply because they're not ordained (orthodox) rabbis ?
Ten year old boys learn Talmud, yet they aren't ordained Rabbis, nor are their teachers. So you need to rephrase your question.
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Old 01-15-2014, 01:21 PM
 
Location: OC/LA
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Ok, I guess my questions wasn't quite clear. I'll make it very simple.

Why is Daniel Boyarin NOT a Talmudic Scholar? Furthermore, can ANY academics be Talmudic Scholars if they did not study at a Yeshiva or other Rabbinical School?

Here's his CV:
Professor Daniel Boyarin, University of California, Berkeley, Near Eastern Studies Department

Here are his publications:
Professor Daniel Boyarin, University of California, Berkeley, Near Eastern Studies Department
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Old 01-15-2014, 01:29 PM
 
864 posts, read 733,864 times
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Quote:
Why is Daniel Boyarin NOT a Talmudic Scholar?
He might be a "Talmudic scholar," but not in the Jewish sense of the word, just like a bible scholar has no knowledge of Toras Moshe M'sinai and the "bible" isn't Torah at all. If he truly were a Talmudic scholar, he'd know that JC isn't discussed anywhere in the Talmud.

Quote:
Furthermore, can ANY academics be Talmudic Scholars if they did not study at a Yeshiva or other Rabbinical School?
Since Torah study is through mesorah, how is he studying Talmud?

Last edited by iwishiwerethin; 01-15-2014 at 01:37 PM..
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Old 01-15-2014, 02:21 PM
 
Location: OC/LA
3,831 posts, read 3,702,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
He might be a "Talmudic scholar," but not in the Jewish sense of the word, just like a bible scholar has no knowledge of Toras Moshe M'sinai and the "bible" isn't Torah at all. If he truly were a Talmudic scholar, he'd know that JC isn't discussed anywhere in the Talmud.
Pretty sure you didn't read the article either. Please show me where anywhere Dr. Boyarin states that the Talmud discusses JC?


Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
Since Torah study is through mesorah, how is he studying Talmud?
Well something like this

Modern academic study attempts to separate the different "strata" within the text, to try to interpret each level on its own, and to identify the correlations between parallel versions of the same tradition. In recent years, the work of R. David Weiss Halivni and Dr. Shamma Friedman have suggested a paradigm shift in the understanding of the Talmud (Encyclopaedia Judaica 2nd ed. entry "Talmud, Babylonian"). The traditional understanding was to view the Talmud as a unified homogeneous work. While other scholars had also treated the Talmud as a multi-layered work, Dr. Halivni's innovation (primarily in the second volume of his Mekorot u-Mesorot) was to differentiate between the Amoraic statements, which are generally brief Halachic decisions or inquiries, and the writings of the later "Stammaitic" (or Saboraic) authors, which are characterised by a much longer analysis that often consists of lengthy dialectic discussion. It has been noted that the Jerusalem Talmud is in fact very similar to the Babylonian Talmud minus Stammaitic activity (Encyclopaedia Judaica (2nd ed.), entry "Jerusalem Talmud"). Shamma Y. Friedman's Talmud Aruch on the sixth chapter of Bava Metzia (1996) is the first example of a complete analysis of a Talmudic text using this method. S. Wald has followed with works on Pesachim ch. 3 (2000) and Shabbat ch. 7 (2006). Further commentaries in this sense are being published by Dr Friedman's "Society for the Interpretation of the Talmud" Talmud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Or this guy, Shai Secundah and his books on The Iranian Talmud or Jewish & Iranian Studies


To me, these seems to be a study of the Talmud and is done by "scholars" at a University.


I just don't understand the need to discredit serious research and call them a bunch of nutbags. I have always learned that Judaism has a strong focus on education and learning.

Last edited by HyperionGap; 01-15-2014 at 02:44 PM..
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Old 01-15-2014, 02:46 PM
 
864 posts, read 733,864 times
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Modern academic study attempts to separate the different "strata" within the text, to try to interpret each level on its own, and to identify the correlations between parallel versions of the same tradition
In contrast to Yeshiva students who study Talmud because it's Toras Hashem, under the guidance of teachers who have themselves learned from teachers who have also learned from teachers all the way up the anshe keneses hagdolah.
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Old 01-15-2014, 02:48 PM
 
Location: OC/LA
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So what?

What was done in the past is always right huh?


p.s. English
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Old 01-15-2014, 04:17 PM
 
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The good professor from Berkeley studied at the Jewish Theological Seminary. They deny that There was an Oral Law given at Mount Sinai. End of story.
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Old 01-15-2014, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
939 posts, read 1,261,961 times
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Source, theflipflop? Or are you simply making stuff up to slander non-Orthodox Jewish schools?
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Old 01-15-2014, 05:22 PM
 
Location: OC/LA
3,831 posts, read 3,702,892 times
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Oh dear, it's conceivable he might have met non-orthodox trained rabbis while studying at the seminary. BURN THE HERETIC!
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