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Old 02-11-2014, 06:15 PM
 
Location: small Southern town balabusta
1,133 posts, read 1,431,904 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
Sadly, that's the truth. How do you counteract these "snide" truths?
Iwish, I must ask you this. Does this sound like a legitimate conversation from an Orthodox person to a newcomer to shul?
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Old 02-11-2014, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
939 posts, read 1,261,142 times
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I've had similar experiences to bobo1234 when I go to Chabad sometimes. There's no shortage of guests (mainly Russian Jews) who have no problems badmouthing non-Orthodox synagogues, and mainly out of bigoted ignorance rather than actual experience. I remember one lady being surprised that the local Reform rabbi could read Hebrew. I told her that Reform rabbinical students are forced to spend a year in Jerusalem.

Don't forget that mainstream Orthodoxy believes that it is absolutely assur (forbidden) for Jews to visit non-Orthodox synagogues or to dialogue with non-Orthodox rabbis, so I suppose I can't blame them for being horrifically ignorant.

Last edited by usuario; 02-11-2014 at 06:30 PM..
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Old 02-11-2014, 06:19 PM
 
Location: small Southern town balabusta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charolastra00 View Post
I would walk right out of any synagogue where it was socially acceptable to talk about "goyim", especially with the type of sneer coming through your posts. These don't sound like good people, much less good Jews.
I thought I would get called a shiksa, or goy, or something when I first came to the Reform shul. The Rabbi was congenial and friendly, but when someone mentioned "shiksa" towards their sister in law in a Torah study, the Rabbi gave them a glare that would melt ice. "Do you know what that means? It's an abdomination, a thing that crawls on the ground. We don't call people that." There was no badmouthing tolerated of Conservative or Orthodox shuls.

Interesting, the only thing I ever got snickered at about was my library book Torah Simplified or something like that. They thought I was smart enough to read "real" books.

It was then I knew I was home. I moved away from that shul for personal reasons, but the concept of justice and kindness as a first impression never left me.
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Old 02-11-2014, 06:21 PM
 
61 posts, read 56,686 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usuario View Post
I've had similar experiences to bobo1234 when I go to Chabad sometimes. There's no shortage of guests (mainly Russian Jews) who have no problems badmouthing non-Orthodox synagogues, and mainly out of bigoted ignorance than actual experience. I remember one lady being surprised that the local Reform rabbi could read Hebrew. I told her that Reform rabbinical students are forced to spend a year in Jerusalem.
Yeah, I asked my modern-orthodox Hebrew tutor about my run-in with this Russian Jew and she told me that a lot of orthodox Russian jews are brainwashed and talk like this about non-orthodox shuls. She told me to ignore him, which I do now.
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Old 02-11-2014, 06:23 PM
 
Location: small Southern town balabusta
1,133 posts, read 1,431,904 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobo1234 View Post
Yeah, I asked my modern-orthodox Hebrew tutor about my run-in with this Russian Jew and she told me that a lot of orthodox Russian jews are brainwashed and talk like this about non-orthodox shuls. She told me to ignore him, which I do now.
It's not enough to ignore a bad seed that spreads poison everywhere. You have to tell him it's wrong and you won't listen.
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Old 02-11-2014, 06:38 PM
 
864 posts, read 733,525 times
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Quote:
Does this sound like a legitimate conversation from an Orthodox person to a newcomer to shul?
No, not very tactful, I must admit. But that doesn't change the fact that it's the truth. So as a recipient of this tactless truthful comment, you have a choice--dismiss it for its insensitivity or embrace it for its veracity. The latter takes maturity.

I don't understand why reform/conservative Jews are so upset when orthodoxy calls them out on their divergence from Torah? It's not as if they even pretend to think the Torah is divine.

Quote:
I told her that Reform rabbinical students are forced to spend a year in Jerusalem.
Why? And for what purpose? Since when is spending a year a Jerusalem a prerequisite for
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Old 02-11-2014, 07:02 PM
 
Location: small Southern town balabusta
1,133 posts, read 1,431,904 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
No, not very tactful, I must admit. But that doesn't change the fact that it's the truth. So as a recipient of this tactless truthful comment, you have a choice--dismiss it for its insensitivity or embrace it for its veracity. The latter takes maturity.

I don't understand why reform/conservative Jews are so upset when orthodoxy calls them out on their divergence from Torah? It's not as if they even pretend to think the Torah is divine.
Thanks, Iwish. I'll be candid with you also. Discussing divergence from Torah is acceptable. Who can argue with that? Calling someone else "weird" or whatever unflattering comments were made is not. Spreading dirt from temple to temple when you were most likely welcomed with open arms is not, either.

I don't consider myself as a recipient of the tactless comment. I don't wear a tallit or kippah as a Conservative woman (not all of us believe in that), and my Hebrew and studies are fairly adequate. (I know better than to jump in halachic discussions here, because I realize what I don't know.).

Do I have room to move forward in my Torah observance? Absolutely. Am I offended at the implication of that? No. Would I spread dirt and gossip about what goes on at shuls to other shuls? No. That's the lowest of low. I have plenty of work to do on my own observance.

Edited to add: I think when it's done constructively, it can help. It serves no purpose to gossip, though. The OP would do well to tell the other shuls face to face how he feels, and then move forward.

Last edited by 1+1=5; 02-11-2014 at 07:13 PM..
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Old 02-11-2014, 07:09 PM
 
61 posts, read 56,686 times
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^Hogwash. I was asked an opinion on what I thought about that conservative shul and I gave my opinion. Yes, I think it's weird when women wear kippahs and tallits. Why do some of your female congregants want to wear prayer clothing for men?

I happen to like this Chabad house because many members speak openly about their conservative politics. I'm sorry you like to keep things bottled up inside. Why do you want to belong to a shul where you don't express yourself?
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Old 02-11-2014, 07:14 PM
 
Location: small Southern town balabusta
1,133 posts, read 1,431,904 times
Reputation: 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobo1234 View Post
^Hogwash. I was asked an opinion on what I thought about that conservative shul and I gave my opinion. Yes, I think it's weird when women wear kippahs and tallits. Why do some of your female congregants want to wear prayer clothing for men?

I happen to like this Chabad house because many members speak openly about their conservative politics. I'm sorry you like to keep things bottled up inside. Why do you want to belong to a shul where you don't express yourself?
You were being tested. They wanted to see if you were a gossip, and you passed the test.

Right speech, right thought, right action. I'm in my shul to daven.

Good luck to you.
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Old 02-11-2014, 07:20 PM
 
61 posts, read 56,686 times
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^Well, I guess you can lie to people in Shul, but that's not me. Funny, if they were testing me and I "passed" why have I been invited to Shabbos dinner again this Friday by one of these pious orthodox jews? Maybe they liked that I expressed myself truthfully!?!?
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