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Old 02-15-2014, 10:00 PM
 
61 posts, read 56,655 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikva View Post
Also, there are two conflicting reports on the Jewish Federations website for 2000-1. One supposedly says 22% for Orthodox (I didn't actually read that one), where the other one says 9%. Makes me kinda wonder...

...Other report by the way: http://www.jewishfederations.org/loc...loads/7579.pdf
Footnote 6 at the bottom of page three says 39% of Jewish children are orthodox.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikva View Post
As of 2014, there are 6 million Jews in Israel, and 42% are self-considered "secular". It seems as though only 33% of those 5.9 million actually identify as Torah observant from the information I have found. Furthermore, 10% are Haredim, 12% Orthodox, 13% Partially observant of Halakha (I guess this can include Conservative and Reform?).
Yes, and if you ask those 42% of secular Israeli jews of what they think of the reform/conservative movements: they will give you a blank stare, snort at you and say you're either "orthodox" or "secular." Israelis don't see anything in between.
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Lake Worth, FL
388 posts, read 316,157 times
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You seem to place quite a bit of stock in what other people think. Have you ever been to Israel to even know that? I'll make sure and ask people when I'm there in June.

Caring about what people I don't know think is not my style, broseph.
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:15 PM
 
61 posts, read 56,655 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikva View Post
You seem to place quite a bit of stock in what other people think...
How so? Yes, ask anybody here....Israelis think that way.

Last edited by bobo1234; 02-15-2014 at 10:26 PM..
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:26 PM
 
Location: Lake Worth, FL
388 posts, read 316,157 times
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By continously quoting that these people and those people won't consider me a Jew. I'm not converting for them, I'm converting for myself. The only one that I care knows is HaShem.

I also believe that you just belonged to a crappy Reform temple. I don't understand a bunch of your bad experiences, maybe just because I've been lucky to go to pretty great Reform congregations thus far. Living in the Boca/West Palm Beach area of Florida has afforded me a great luxury of having vibrant congregations with plenty of older members that hold on to traditions.

I also don't ever hear of anyone around me talking anti-Israel. If anything, we're extremely pro-zionist at the temples I go to. Every service has Avinu Shebashamayim and a special blessing for the IDF, plus plenty of Mitzvah projects that are Israel-centric. Every B'nei Mitzvah gets a congregational gift of money towards their Birthright trip to Israel. The week of Tu B'Shevat, we actually had a guest speaker from the Jewish National Fund that came to thank our Synagogue for the support over the years in helping to buy land in Israel. The best part was one of the first things the speaker said was "How many of you have visited Israel?" and almost every hand in the room went up.
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:52 PM
 
61 posts, read 56,655 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikva View Post
....Living in the Boca/West Palm Beach area of Florida has afforded me a great luxury of having vibrant congregations with plenty of older members that hold on to traditions.....I also don't ever hear of anyone around me talking anti-Israel.
Well, you see the anti-Israel phenomena in the Reform movement isn't with the baby boomer and later generations, it's true they are pro-Israel. However, the people born after 1990, they're the ones who have a negative view on Israel and are becoming anti-Zionists. I suggest you spend time with some of the younger Reform jews if you have time.
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:56 PM
 
Location: Lake Worth, FL
388 posts, read 316,157 times
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I'm a rare bread at my temple (25 years old), mostly its families of b'nei mitzvahs or boomers at services (It's Florida, we got old people!).
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Old 02-16-2014, 01:12 AM
 
Location: OC/LA
3,831 posts, read 3,697,570 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobo1234 View Post
Well, you see the anti-Israel phenomena in the Reform movement isn't with the baby boomer and later generations, it's true they are pro-Israel. However, the people born after 1990, they're the ones who have a negative view on Israel and are becoming anti-Zionists. I suggest you spend time with some of the younger Reform jews if you have time.
So the young kids are rebelling against their parents/figures of authority and this is causing you to write the whole movement off.

Honestly, I have no problem with whatever form of religion you choose to practice, but your stated reason for doing so just doesn't make any logical sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikva View Post
Hyp, my mother is Catholic and demanded I get some sort of religious education as a child. I seriously told my mom "I want to be a Jew" at 6 years old and she made my father take me to Shul. Sad part was that he refused to go back after that initial service. As a result of my father being secular, I was subjugated to Catholic sacraments as a child (honor thy mother, I guess).
Yeah, they would definitely make you go through the conversion process if you were raised Catholic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikva View Post
You seem to place quite a bit of stock in what other people think. Have you ever been to Israel to even know that? I'll make sure and ask people when I'm there in June.

Caring about what people I don't know think is not my style, broseph.
Out of curiousity, has a stranger EVER asked you out of the blue if your mother was Jewish or if you had converted? I really don't see anyone bringing that up and if they did, I probably wouldn't want to get to know anyone so weird.

I too am going to Israel in June (for the first time) and am quite excited. Have you gone before and what/where are you planning to go when you're there?
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Old 02-16-2014, 04:55 AM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,353 posts, read 24,079,680 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperionGap View Post

I too am going to Israel in June ....
Just an FYI, the airport is completely secular and there is no Orthodox Judgement Police. But do keep in mind there are camera's everywhere. When you get to passport control (its a long walk so where your most compfy sneakers) make eye contact and keep your answers to their questions very short ("if" the word missionary comes up just state "No" with no explanations). Once past them, get a cart, get your luggage and exchange about $200 for shekels. The easiest way to keep the exchange rate clear in your mind is to just think 4 shekels is a dollar (4:1). Also expense wise, Israel is at the level of NYC.

If you have questions create a thread here and in travel so you get responses from all spectrum's and things they rarely mention in the guidebooks .
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Old 02-16-2014, 06:43 AM
 
61 posts, read 56,655 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperionGap View Post
Honestly, I have no problem with whatever form of religion you choose to practice, but your stated reason for doing so just doesn't make any logical sense.
Well, I guess you didn't read my posts then. Look up the terms, "too liberal" and "anti Zionists". BTW, there is a generational difference between the older reform jews and younger reform jews when it comes to Israel. The newer generations don't really care and are apathetic to the safety of Israel.
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Old 02-16-2014, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Lake Worth, FL
388 posts, read 316,157 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperionGap View Post
So the young kids are rebelling against their parents/figures of authority and this is causing you to write the whole movement off.

Honestly, I have no problem with whatever form of religion you choose to practice, but your stated reason for doing so just doesn't make any logical sense.


Yeah, they would definitely make you go through the conversion process if you were raised Catholic.


Out of curiousity, has a stranger EVER asked you out of the blue if your mother was Jewish or if you had converted? I really don't see anyone bringing that up and if they did, I probably wouldn't want to get to know anyone so weird.

I too am going to Israel in June (for the first time) and am quite excited. Have you gone before and what/where are you planning to go when you're there?
Yes, I fully understood that I needed to undertake the conversion process when I decided I wanted to be an active member of a synagogue and community.

I don't understand why a few Reform peoples opinion on the State of Israel is enough to warrant becoming Orthodox, especially when the Ultra-Orthodox were very against the creation of Israel in 1948. One of my favorite lines embodying that from the movie "The Chosen" is a Chasidic male telling a fellow Jew that was involved in Zionism "You are worse than Hitler. Whereas Hitler killed the Jewish body, you are killing the Jewish soul".

Never have I been asked if my mother is Jewish or if I was a convert. I look Jewish as I've inherited many physical traits from my father. If someone asked me, I'd probably not talk to that person again because its such a weird thing to ask someone. I was welcomed with open arms into my congregation. Quite frankly, they were thrilled that someone my age wants to go to Shul and Study. Sidebar: I was asked if I wanted the honor of carrying the Torah when I visited a nearby Conservative shul. I respectfully declined.

Funny story: My younger brother was in Miami on the club scene with his girlfriend and friend of hers and got to a Club late. By that time it was packed and they could not get in. His girlfriends friend was chatting up this guy (who turned out to be the owner) and he decided to let the two girls in. He looks at my brother and asks "Are you Jewish" (the owner was very clearly Jewish and my brother looks like your stereotypical Jew) and my brother responds with "Baruch HaShem". He then let my brother in as well and hooked them up with VIP club access.

At least I'm rubbing off on him

Last edited by Tikva; 02-16-2014 at 10:06 AM..
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