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Old 02-11-2014, 10:00 PM
 
61 posts, read 56,722 times
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As I start my journey towards REAL Judaism, orthodox, I thought I should discuss why I left this movement. Please feel free to ask me any questions!!! Reform is a great place to start but it's only Judaism light with 0 calories.

I will be meeting with a Chabad rabbi soon and we will start my journey with the Mitzvah of Tefillin.

Last edited by bobo1234; 02-11-2014 at 10:10 PM..
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:45 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
939 posts, read 1,261,542 times
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What do you make of the fact that many ultra-Orthodox groups are anti-Zionist and/or anti-Israel, some openly like Satmar/Neturei Karta and some more quietly (Chabad, yeshivish Jews), and base their opinions on their understanding of the Torah?

How do you feel about sincere converts to Judaism who die for the State of Israel but whose conversions are rejected by the Israeli Rabbinate because they were performed by liberal Orthodox or Conservative rabbis? Are they real Jews or simply imposters that cause Jews to assimilate?

What do you think of Meir Kahane?
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:32 PM
 
61 posts, read 56,722 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usuario View Post
What do you make of the fact that many ultra-Orthodox groups are anti-Zionist and/or anti-Israel, some openly like Satmar/Neturei Karta and some more quietly (Chabad, yeshivish Jews), and base their opinions on their understanding of the Torah?
Satmar and Neturei Karta are trash. Chabad isn't pro-zionist but it isn't anti-zionist either, I will however say that it's pro-Israel. Pro-Israel =! Pro-Zionist. The two chabad rabbis of the shul i just started going to have family living in Israel and care deeply about their safety. To my surprise, the younger rabbi runs a teen group called "Cteen" and one of the projects for these teens was to create personalized medals and cards to express their appreciation for the soldiers in Israel. Guess who personally delivered these gifts to the Israeli soldiers? Yep, it was the head Chabad rabbi.

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Originally Posted by usuario View Post
How do you feel about sincere converts to Judaism who die for the State of Israel...
I have nothing but respect for these wonderful people!

Quote:
Originally Posted by usuario View Post
...but whose conversions are rejected by the Israeli Rabbinate because they were performed by liberal Orthodox or Conservative rabbis?
A few years ago when I was still a liberal-minded Reform Jew, this really pissed me off! However, not so much today because I believe Judaism needs quality control. If we didn't have this quality control what would prevent the messianic jews from being declared "real" jews? The bar needs to be set somewhere.


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Originally Posted by usuario View Post
...Are they real Jews or simply imposters that cause Jews to assimilate?
Well there are two official ways of being or becoming a jew. 1) Mother is Jewish, which means her mother and her mother's mother and her mother's mother's mother and her mother's mother's mother's mother was born to an orthodox Jewish mother somewhere in the family tree. 2) You convert to modern orthodox.

If you don't fit either criteria then technically you aren't a jew. Thank G-d my great grandma was orthodox!!

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Originally Posted by usuario View Post
What do you think of Meir Kahane?
The arabs don't want to live in peace with the Jews in Israel. If they did, why didn't they give any counteroffers when Israel offered 6 different peace plans throughout history? I think Kahane may have been a little too reactionary and radical.

Last edited by bobo1234; 02-12-2014 at 12:07 AM..
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:53 AM
 
864 posts, read 733,701 times
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Okay. Here's my question:

Judging by your posts,your quest for authentic Judaism (as if there is any other) was triggered by your pro-zionist stance. So do you know whose idea was zionism and why he came up with this idea? Was his idea rooted in Judaism at all, and what kind of Jew was this person?

Hatzlacha on your journey and welcome home.
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Old 02-12-2014, 10:18 AM
 
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^I know that the people who created Zionism were secularists. I still identify with it and see no problem being both a religious Jew and a political Zionist.

I am fully aware that Chabad does not subscribe to Zionism because of its secular roots. Good for them, but I think you can be a part of both groups, so we obviously disagree on this issue. Anyway, Chabad is pro-Israel and for now, that is good enough for me. I want to learn how to be an orthodox Jew and they can certainly teach me. If I don't like their stance on Zionism a couple years down the road, I'll just switch to a Modern Orthodox Shul that is Zionist.
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Old 02-12-2014, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,284,120 times
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Originally Posted by bobo1234 View Post
^I know that the people who created Zionism were secularists. I still identify with it and see no problem being both a religious Jew and a political Zionist.

I am fully aware that Chabad does not subscribe to Zionism because of its secular roots. Good for them, but I think you can be a part of both groups, so we obviously disagree on this issue. Anyway, Chabad is pro-Israel and for now, that is good enough for me. I want to learn how to be an orthodox Jew and they can certainly teach me. If I don't like their stance on Zionism a couple years down the road, I'll just switch to a Modern Orthodox Shul that is Zionist.
While I am not Jewish and seldom post. this does pique my curiosity. How does "Modern Orthodox" differ from Reform?
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Old 02-12-2014, 02:00 PM
 
61 posts, read 56,722 times
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Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
While I am not Jewish and seldom post. this does pique my curiosity. How does "Modern Orthodox" differ from Reform?
Instead of me going onto some reform webpage and regurgitating from it, i'll tell you how I was brought up in a Reform temple and with Reform parents:

-Most prayers are 50/50 Hebrew and English
-You can eat anything you want! This includes pork, shellfish, and more!
-Practicing Shabbat is not required.
-If you want to practice Shabbat, it's okay to drive to Shul.
-Dress in whatever clothes you like.
-The Torah and Tanakh are considered inspirational stories, but not divine.
-Judaism can and should change with current societies.
-Israel isn't a piece of land, it's a place in your heart or where you call home.


I'm still learning about orthodox, both chasidic and modern, so you'll have to take my description with a grain of salt. I'd appreciate it if other orthodox Jews chime in on what I should add or what I say is incorrect. Here's my list for modern orthodoxy:

-Prayers are 100% Hebrew
-You can only eat Kosher foods.
-Practicing Shabbat is required.
-You may only walk to Shul on Shabbat, driving is forbidden.
-The Torah and Tanakh are divine and given to us Jews from G-d.
-You must dress modestly (at least for chassidic, I'm not sure about modern)
-If there is a conflict between current science and the Torah, the Torah always comes first (at least for Chassidic, again I'm not sure what modern does).
-G-d established a covenant with Abraham and his descendants Jacob and Isaac and gave them a physical piece of land called Israel. This covenant is eternal.
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Old 02-12-2014, 03:42 PM
 
864 posts, read 733,701 times
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Quote:
While I am not Jewish and seldom post. this does pique my curiosity. How does "Modern Orthodox" differ from Reform?
Modern orthodox operates within the boundaries of halacha (Jewish law).
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Old 02-12-2014, 03:45 PM
 
61 posts, read 56,722 times
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Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
Modern orthodox operates within the boundaries of halacha (Jewish law).
That's not a very clear answer to a non-jew who probably knows nothing about our religion.
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Old 02-12-2014, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,284,120 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobo1234 View Post
Instead of me going onto some reform webpage and regurgitating from it, i'll tell you how I was brought up in a Reform temple and with Reform parents:

-Most prayers are 50/50 Hebrew and English
-You can eat anything you want! This includes pork, shellfish, and more!
-Practicing Shabbat is not required.
-If you want to practice Shabbat, it's okay to drive to Shul.
-Dress in whatever clothes you like.
-The Torah and Tanakh are considered inspirational stories, but not divine.
-Judaism can and should change with current societies.
-Israel isn't a piece of land, it's a place in your heart or where you call home.


I'm still learning about orthodox, both chasidic and modern, so you'll have to take my description with a grain of salt. I'd appreciate it if other orthodox Jews chime in on what I should add or what I say is incorrect. Here's my list for modern orthodoxy:

-Prayers are 100% Hebrew
-You can only eat Kosher foods.
-Practicing Shabbat is required.
-You may only walk to Shul on Shabbat, driving is forbidden.
-The Torah and Tanakh are divine and given to us Jews from G-d.
-You must dress modestly (at least for chassidic, I'm not sure about modern)
-If there is a conflict between current science and the Torah, the Torah always comes first (at least for Chassidic, again I'm not sure what modern does).
-G-d established a covenant with Abraham and his descendants Jacob and Isaac and gave them a physical piece of land called Israel. This covenant is eternal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
Modern orthodox operates within the boundaries of halacha (Jewish law).
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobo1234 View Post
That's not a very clear answer to a non-jew who probably knows nothing about our religion.
Thank both of you. That helps settle my curiosity. Although the term Modern Orthodox conveys the concept of a Modified orthodoxy. At least in my Humble opinion. J

Just my own assumption but it seems like a more compliant form of Reform. rather than Orthodox. At least that is what the label conveys to me.

I had never heard the term used before.
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