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View Poll Results: Are Orthodox Women treated as second class citizens by Orthodox Men?
Yes, they are treated as second class citizens 6 66.67%
No, they aren't treated as second class citizens 3 33.33%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-16-2014, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,374 posts, read 24,132,268 times
Reputation: 8870

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Haredi modesty sign telling women to walk on the opposite side of the street than men.

 
Old 02-16-2014, 04:15 PM
 
61 posts, read 56,762 times
Reputation: 28
^How does this make you feel, Pruz?
 
Old 02-16-2014, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Lake Worth, FL
388 posts, read 316,704 times
Reputation: 264
See, I think its all subjective. From an outsider, I think it is treating women as less than men due to the absence of the Y chromosome and having an extra X.

Putting myself in the shoes of someone who is completely observant of Torah and Talmud, I would believe that this is the way HaShem intended us live.

For someone who was not raised Orthodox, how do you feel about it Bobo? Does it align with your beliefs on a non-spiritual level?
 
Old 02-16-2014, 04:22 PM
 
3,964 posts, read 3,346,864 times
Reputation: 1246
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobo1234 View Post
I take it you're an orthodox man that doesn't think of orthodox women as 2nd class citizens?
Bingo. If I treated my precious wife like a second class citizen, I would be a bachelor. If I treated her the way Rwform and C men treat their women in shul, she'd divorce me immediately.

I find it funny, that those posters here who are clearly going upwards in their Torah Observance (like 1+1 and JB), have overall very pleasant and confident hashkafos. MOD CUT

Last edited by Woodrow LI; 02-16-2014 at 10:58 PM.. Reason: Vaguely hidden personal attack
 
Old 02-16-2014, 04:22 PM
 
61 posts, read 56,762 times
Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikva View Post
For someone who was not raised Orthodox, how do you feel about it Bobo? Does it align with your beliefs on a non-spiritual level?
I think the sign is odd and extreme. However, I actually like that the shul I'm going to right now segregates men and women. I think I prefer it to mixed seating.
 
Old 02-16-2014, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Camberville
12,043 posts, read 16,783,404 times
Reputation: 19795
A little Jewish girl grows up loving Hebrew, Torah, and everything Jewish. Then she learns she cannot dedicate her life to religious study the way a boy could. She cannot become a rabbi. She is not only not obligated to fulfill certain mitzvot but she cannot even partake in many if she wants to in certain sects of Orthodox Judaism. She might as well not even be there for minyan, because she knows she doesn't count. Her period becomes a point of shame and her contact limited (and not just sexually) during that time of the month. Depending on where she lives, she might have to sit in the back of the bus or walk on the other side of the street from men. If she makes the wrong choice in marriage and must get a divorce, her husband may control her by not giving her a get. He can date and move on with life, but she cannot until her HUSBAND (even if he is abusive) acquiesces.

If a woman decides that's the lifestyle for her, so be it. To me, it is absolutely being treated as less than.
 
Old 02-16-2014, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,374 posts, read 24,132,268 times
Reputation: 8870
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobo1234 View Post
How does this make you feel, Pruz?
I don't agree with it.
 
Old 02-16-2014, 04:46 PM
 
Location: small Southern town balabusta
1,138 posts, read 1,434,512 times
Reputation: 761
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
Are you sure you all can judge? Maybe you should ask Iwish, as the lone Orthodox women participating in this forum.

As for my opinion, I am deeply offended any if you would think I treat my wife like a second class citizen. I'll hold back the rest of my thoughts to avoid a chilul hashem.
Hmmm. Let's see. I suspect that you daven three times a day, go to work, and then come home and help your wife with the kids. You defer to your wife to build a Jewish home. You don't ogle other women, and don't even touch them unless you're related. You treat female posters here with respect, even when they weren't born Jewish and aren't Orthodox. Never once pulled the "convert" or "woman" card as far as I remember.

Sounds pretty decent to me.
 
Old 02-16-2014, 04:57 PM
 
61 posts, read 56,762 times
Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1+1=5 View Post
Hmmm. Let's see. I suspect that you daven three times a day, go to work, and then come home and help your wife with the kids. You defer to your wife to build a Jewish home. You don't ogle other women, and don't even touch them unless you're related. You treat female posters here with respect, even when they weren't born Jewish and aren't Orthodox. Never once pulled the "convert" or "woman" card as far as I remember.

Sounds pretty decent to me.
How exactly does this comment relate to this thread?
 
Old 02-16-2014, 05:00 PM
 
3,964 posts, read 3,346,864 times
Reputation: 1246
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1+1=5 View Post
Hmmm. Let's see. I suspect that you daven three times a day, go to work, and then come home and help your wife with the kids. You defer to your wife to build a Jewish home. You don't ogle other women, and don't even touch them unless you're related. You treat female posters here with respect, even when they weren't born Jewish and aren't Orthodox. Never once pulled the "convert" or "woman" card as far as I remember.

Sounds pretty decent to me.
I also do dishes and laundry and get up with the kids in the morning and so on. My shul has the tiniest ezras nashem (lady's section), and it's usually empty. The women in my shul are all amazing spiritual people who drive the Yiddishkite in the home. If they were suddenly obligated in time bound positive mitzvos, they would cease to be ayshes chayils and would become, what? Just men? How sad.

Chana, I'm amazed at how you constantly show off your Jewish hashkafo.
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