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View Poll Results: Should Women be allowed up to the bima and read from the torah?
Yes! It's the 21st century and women should have equal rights! 6 85.71%
No! Traditionally, it is supposed to be the man that does an aliyah and reads from the torah. 1 14.29%
Voters: 7. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-15-2015, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,353 posts, read 24,094,847 times
Reputation: 8864

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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
I assure anyone who cares, that the ability to read and translate lashen hakodesh is not more useful in understanding Hashem's will than having access to talmidei chachamim. Translating Torah according to ones own intellect, without the benefit of chazal, is apikores.
You seem to not have a strong grasp of Orthodox education. One learns Torah Hebrew (lashen hakodesh) in order to understand the words and translate them so there is no loss in the translation. Blindly reading a Chumash without understanding what you are reading is gibberish. Usually this is done along with Rashi thus having the assistance to understand the context of what you are reading. You have it reversed if you think reading the footnotes takes precedence over reading the book. That would make you a Talmud Observant Jew and not a Torah Observant Jew. In order for people to become Torah Scholars (talmidei chachamim) one has to be well versed in the Torah itself and you would know this if you could read the Mishnah which has a statement that all should strive to be Torah Scholars. You seem to not understand that a talmid chacham simply means a student who is wise. You use chazal as if its a single person. Again another mistake when its a acronym for a list of people who did commentary over a span of 800 years. If you want to state I'm committing heresy (apikoros) then so be it as it is not the first time you've given me a heavy duty insult. You consistently stating the Torah is useless without the Talmud is true heresy by giving the Talmud a higher importance than the Torah itself. Now that you actually know what the Hebrew words you used mean, maybe next time you'll use them correctly and become a wise student.

And back to this thread, there is nothing in the Torah or from Ḥakhameinu Zikhronam Liv'rakha (chazal) stating women should not not be allowed to read the Torah.
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Old 02-15-2015, 07:12 PM
 
3,952 posts, read 3,340,232 times
Reputation: 1246
Keep it calm, please.

For those who like to hear women davening for the amud or at the bima, there are shul's which are not machmir on kol isha. All the orthodox shul's I know of are machmir. Seems like there's an option for all Yidden here. So what's the point of this thread?
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Old 02-16-2015, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,353 posts, read 24,094,847 times
Reputation: 8864
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post

For those who like to hear women davening for the amud or at the bima, there are shul's which are not machmir on kol isha. All the orthodox shul's I know of are machmir. Seems like there's an option for all Yidden here. So what's the point of this thread?
If you want to have a discussion on machmir verses makil then start one. This thread is not the place for it as it's too far off topic for the OP. That being said, this topic is makil since it's based on Rabbinic Law and not Torah law.

machmir

Judaism 101: Search the Glossary and Index
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Old 03-22-2015, 12:25 AM
 
508 posts, read 669,360 times
Reputation: 227
I know a Ger Tzedek that wants to knock the walls down among the Orthodox. She says: "but in the Koran they let women lead prayer services." No, I'm not making this up. Koran aside, and this confused convert aside, my thoughts are NO way! Men and women should not sit together in Shul. Women should not be called up to Torah. I'm so sick and tired of people trying to impose their will on others. If you are a woman and want to get called up then go to a Shul that permits it. Otherwise, stop trying to crash the party.
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Old 03-22-2015, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
939 posts, read 1,261,142 times
Reputation: 760
Stop mentioning that she is a ger tzedek (giyoret)! If she is complaining before she converted, then that's an issue. Outsiders shouldn't be trying to change the Jewish way of life. Once she has converted, she has as much right to kvetch about what she wants as any other Jew. A Jew is a Jew is a Jew. I think you have issues accepting converts as Jews. I would say that the high average observance level of converts (not including people who "converted" solely for marriage) actually sustains Judaism and the Jewish people way more than secular "cultural Jews" like Jon Stewart and Woody Allen. In a certain sense, they are more Jewish than the average Jewish person. If you don't like halacha's prohibition against reminding gerei tzedek of their previous status as a non-Jew, you might want to consider leaving Judaism
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Old 03-22-2015, 05:43 PM
 
508 posts, read 669,360 times
Reputation: 227
I won't stop. She had her Conservative Conversion and that was the extent of it. She's always been complaining. First, to Islamicize Judaism and also to Feminize it through the vehicle of "modern" or "open" Orthodoxy. I have no trouble accepting Converts, I'm not a Syrian. But I do have trouble accepting people with an Agenda seeking to serve as a Trojan Horse. There are more of these folks out and about than you realize. I think they should be stopped in their tracks. Because when you have knowledge that they plan on lying to a Beit Din then you have no choice but to make phone calls you really don't want to make. Especially, when they want to lie before an Orthodox Beit Din and I mean lie. I know it sounds off-the-wall.

Of course Converts in many cases are going to know more about Jewish law than secular cultural Jews, what else is new? It's only logical and normal. Suggesting to me that I leave Judaism....where exactly is that in Talmud? : ) I'm not the one with the problem and neither are you. We aren't the problem. Let's get that clear.

Last edited by HarryRSpooner; 03-22-2015 at 06:00 PM..
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Old 03-22-2015, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado
3,293 posts, read 4,053,020 times
Reputation: 4248
Who cares about the Torah, it's the 21st century? I mean cmon!! Religion is about appeasing the needs of humans rather than appeasing the laws of some outdated G-d.. I mean cmon???! And, if someone wants to worship another god at the bimah, who are you, with your outdated G-d and religion to criticize him? Have an open mind!
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Old 03-22-2015, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
939 posts, read 1,261,142 times
Reputation: 760
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayTwila View Post
I know a Ger Tzedek that wants to knock the walls down among the Orthodox. She says: "but in the Koran they let women lead prayer services." No, I'm not making this up. Koran aside, and this confused convert aside, my thoughts are NO way! Men and women should not sit together in Shul. Women should not be called up to Torah. I'm so sick and tired of people trying to impose their will on others. If you are a woman and want to get called up then go to a Shul that permits it. Otherwise, stop trying to crash the party.
It's a Baal Teshuva's Job To Rebel Against the Orthodox World
It's A Baal Teshuva's Job To Rebel Against The Orthodox World

Do you think gerim and baalei teshuva should be treated differently? If so, what about baalei teshuva who have a non-Jewish father?
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Old 03-22-2015, 08:44 PM
 
508 posts, read 669,360 times
Reputation: 227
Oh, thanks for the link! I love PopChassid. Aren't I rebelling my opposing Conversion? Lemme read the article : )
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