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Old 02-22-2014, 08:14 AM
 
Location: New Jersey, USA
618 posts, read 452,207 times
Reputation: 216

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Hello all.

I am working on a writing project based essentially in Christian theology. That said, much of Christianity is (as you know) based on the application of Hebrew scripture (regardless of the accuracy with which it is applied). This has lead me to attempt to understand a few nuances of Hebrew, which I am clearly ill-qualified to do. I have searched several Christian sources, but have found them rather incomplete, which leads me to request the assistance of the Jewish community here on C-D. Any input would be helpful. I will be phrasing my questions based on input from my incomplete research, so please forgive any inaccuracies.

The problem centers around the nature of what Christians call "the devil," whom I know is viewed very differently in the two religions. Christian often refer to him as "Satan," although my understanding is that this actually translates to "accusation," rather than "accusor." My understanding is that it is more correct to write "Ha Satan or Ha-Satan," meaning "the accusor." One source also contained "Satanelj," claiming that this could be rendered "accusor of god," but I have no idea if this is accurate. If accurate, would it be understood as "one who makes accusations against god," "one who makes accusations with god," neither, or either? In no case have I seem these terms combined (Ha Satanel to express "the accusor of god"). Would such a combination be incorrect?

As you are probably also aware, Christians often refer to "the devil" as Lucifer. This is tied to a very strange translation of an expression in the Book of Isaiah regarding the king of Babylon. Christians label the verse as Isaiah 14:12

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

The word Lucifer comes from a Latin translation that literally means "light bringer," but I have seen this term rendered: "star of the morning," "morning star," and "shining one." My understanding is that the original Hebrew word is "haylel" (or something similar) which literally referred to "the morning star," meaning the planet Venus. I am unsure if this word "haylel" is correct and if it is a proper noun (referring to Venus) or an improper noun. Any clarification would be appreciated.

Beyond these terms (Satan and Lucifer) I have no information about the proper name of "the devil" (assuming he/it has a proper name) which is what initiated the inquiry. Any additional thoughts on this topic would also be appreciated.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.
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Old 02-22-2014, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,353 posts, read 24,079,680 times
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Because there is none in Judaism. Here are two links for you:

Do Jews Believe in Satan?
Job 1:11 OJB - But put forth Thine yad now, and strike - Bible Gateway
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Old 02-22-2014, 11:54 AM
 
Location: New Jersey, USA
618 posts, read 452,207 times
Reputation: 216
Hello Pruzhany, woppers.

First let me note that it was only after posting my original inquiry that I realized I had done so on the morning of the Sabbath, potentially limiting the ability of some members to read or respond to my post depending on location, practice, or computer equipment. This was an oversight on my part.

Second, I do appreciate the importance of the distinction between how this figure, "the devil" is viewed by the majority of Jews and Christians and assure you that I am in no way attempting to give a "Jewish" perspective on the topic, which I would clearly be grossly under qualified to do. I am merely investigating the Hebrew roots of the figure that forms the basis of the Christian one - with which I do not necessarily agree in any case. Indeed, the concept of "the devil" as allegorical exists even in some schools of Christian theology.

That said, if I may focus on the depiction of Satan as a "son of god" in the Book of Job, it may provide a good framework for the discussion. Whether literal or allegorical, this character is "haśśāṭān," which I now take to mean "the adversary." My next question may be naive, but is there a preferred method for expressing this title in non-specialized characters of the English language? Is Hassatan more correct than Ha-Satan or any other translation across the written languages?

Assuming that this "son of god" (real or allegorical) is entitled "haśśāṭān," he may or may not also have a proper name, I assume...even if it is never given. Is this true?

Any information on the term from Isaiah (Heylel/Heilel) would be much appreciated.

Again, my thanks for your responses.
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Old 02-22-2014, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,353 posts, read 24,079,680 times
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Tanach: Zechariah (Zekharyah): Zechariah (Zekharyah) Chapter 3

You get "haśśāṭān" when you don't know what you are doing as in the above link.
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Old 02-22-2014, 05:09 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,353 posts, read 24,079,680 times
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OP, link to read.

Nazarene:: The Lucifer Myth - Haylel
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Old 02-22-2014, 06:00 PM
 
Location: New Jersey, USA
618 posts, read 452,207 times
Reputation: 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Tanach: Zechariah (Zekharyah): Zechariah (Zekharyah) Chapter 3

You get "haśśāṭān" when you don't know what you are doing as in the above link.
Hello again Pruzhany.

I can only assume the above link was not intended for me, as I am quite literally unable to read a single word of it. I have read the link that followed regarding "heylel." Thanks for that.

Thanks.
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Old 02-22-2014, 06:05 PM
 
864 posts, read 733,274 times
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In Judaism, there's an angel called the Satan. Just like all angels, he is a creation and servant of G-d. His job is to tempt people to sin so they can overcome their temptation and qualify for eternal reward. The Satan tempts man, then brings his name up for prosecution, and then becomes man's primary accuser, ultimately bringing his downfall. The reason why we are here is to overcome his urgings, thereby becoming better people.
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Old 02-22-2014, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,353 posts, read 24,079,680 times
Reputation: 8864
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
In Judaism, there's an angel called the Satan. Just like all angels, he is a creation and servant of G-d. His job is to tempt people to sin so they can overcome their temptation and qualify for eternal reward. The Satan tempts man, then brings his name up for prosecution, and then becomes man's primary accuser, ultimately bringing his downfall. The reason why we are here is to overcome his urgings, thereby becoming better people.
Documentation is needed of where you got this from.
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Old 02-22-2014, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,353 posts, read 24,079,680 times
Reputation: 8864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyker View Post
Hello again Pruzhany.

I can only assume the above link was not intended for me, as I am quite literally unable to read a single word of it. I have read the link that followed regarding "heylel." Thanks for that.

Thanks.

Correct. It wasn't meant for you. It was meant to show transliteration is not translation. The word in Hebrew is pronounced Saw-ton and not Saytaan. For it pronounced as Saytaan a letter called yud would need to be added and the vowels would need to be changed. Plus in Judaism the word Y*** is meant to be seen and not read. Thus salutations are stated in its place.
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Old 02-23-2014, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,353 posts, read 24,079,680 times
Reputation: 8864
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
In Judaism, there's an angel called the Satan. Just like all angels, he is a creation and servant of G-d. His job is to tempt people to sin so they can overcome their temptation and qualify for eternal reward. The Satan tempts man, then brings his name up for prosecution, and then becomes man's primary accuser, ultimately bringing his downfall. The reason why we are here is to overcome his urgings, thereby becoming better people.
Got tired waiting for you to supply documentation on things that you partial make up and throw filler in so it sounds like truth.

NO. There is a ha-satan (pronouned ha-sawton). So for the definition you supplied, then the following link explains where the truth lies.

Quote:
The word sawton (as it sounds like in Hebrew) means "challenger", "difficulty", or "distraction" (note that it is not a proper name).
S.C.J. FAQ: Section 12.35. Jewish Thought: What does Judaism believe about Satan?
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