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Old 03-17-2014, 08:54 AM
 
864 posts, read 733,356 times
Reputation: 251

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Quote:
So you're saying I shouldn't trust what my rabbi has to say? Guess I shouldn't trust what any rabbis for that matter.
No, you shouldn't, at least not until you get yourself an education. Begin studying Torah just to protect yourself from others trying to sell you the Brooklyn Bridge. Knowledge is empowering, and you'll be fulfilling a Mitzvah, too.
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Old 03-17-2014, 09:55 AM
 
Location: OC/LA
3,831 posts, read 3,698,340 times
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Have you studied the Talmud?

Also, good to know I can ignore everything you and tff say as trying to sell me a bill of goods.
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Old 03-17-2014, 10:00 AM
 
864 posts, read 733,356 times
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Quote:
Have you studied the Talmud?
All of it? No.
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Old 03-17-2014, 10:03 AM
 
Location: OC/LA
3,831 posts, read 3,698,340 times
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I was under the impression females weren't supposed to study the Mishnah and instead should focus on more domestic pursuits like baking challah.
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Old 03-17-2014, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
939 posts, read 1,260,772 times
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Ultra-Orthodox women are forbidden from learning the Oral Torah including the Talmud, except for the laws that are deemed by the ultra-Orthodox rabbis to pertain to them, like menstruation, keeping peace in the house, keeping a kosher kitchen, and dressing modestly.
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Old 03-17-2014, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,353 posts, read 24,084,481 times
Reputation: 8864
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperionGap View Post
So I learned from my rabbi yesterday that orthodoxy actually was a response to the enlightenment / reform movement and was developed afterwards. Prior to that normative judaism was actually quite fluid and was able to change adapt in order to its circumstances. It wasn't until the reform came and was considered too radical that the ultra right wing rabbis out there foot down and decided nothing should change. Ever. This is why they still wear the clothing of 19th century Poles.

I was not aware of this concept because I think most orthodox try to spin the idea that they are the "original" denomination of Judaism that goes all the way back to biblical times and everyone broke off from them. When in fact this isn't true at all, it's actually more modern than reform.
This link reinforces your statement:

Development and Religious Polarization: The Emergence of Reform and Ultra-Orthodox Judaism | Mark Koyama - Academia.edu
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Old 03-17-2014, 12:05 PM
 
3,943 posts, read 3,337,959 times
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This forum is heart breaking. To see the levels we have fallen to as a Jewish people. All this hatred for Torah and the constant rationalization of why we refuse to listen to our Jewish sages. Just sad.
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Old 03-17-2014, 12:14 PM
 
Location: OC/LA
3,831 posts, read 3,698,340 times
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Thanks for the link Pruz. It was very helpful in understanding how and why the schism developed. I'm sure Iwish won't address the article at all and just bury her head in the sand and say "it's wrong!!!"

This part I thought summed it up very nicely.

"The model sheds light on how different economic regions reacted to emancipation. It predicts that where emancipation is accompanied by economic development, it is optimal for a religious authority to enable community members to engage in income-generating activity outside the community in return for increased financial contributions to the community. Where there is emancipation without economic development, any potential increase in financial contributions from outside activity is not sufficient to compensate religious authorities for the diminution in contributions of time and effort to the group."

Therefore, Reform originating in developing/wealthy Germany and Orthodox in the poor areas of Eastern Europe. I find social studies quite fascinating!
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Old 03-17-2014, 12:15 PM
 
864 posts, read 733,356 times
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Quote:
All this hatred for Torah and the constant rationalization of why we refuse to listen to our Jewish sages.
Take heart, TFF. Hyper is listening to his sagess. The sadness is the ignorance of Jews.
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Old 03-18-2014, 07:00 AM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,353 posts, read 24,084,481 times
Reputation: 8864
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
The sadness is the ignorance of Jews.
The sadness is the ignorance of excessive TOJ Jews to the Truth.
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