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Old 03-17-2014, 08:49 AM
 
864 posts, read 734,487 times
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Quote:
Yes, but I'm also aware some Christians don't take Adam and Eve so literally, considering population genetics.
Many Jews don't either take Adam and Eve literally, but that isn't Judaism. Jews and Judaism are two separate entities.
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Old 03-17-2014, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
939 posts, read 1,263,660 times
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Scientifically, there couldn't have been an Adam and Eve that lived at the same time. The last common male ancestor of all of current-day humanity (Y-chromosome Adam) and the last female ancestor of all current-day humanity (mitochondrial Eve) lived at different times, many tens of thousands of years apart.

There's a common saying: "Two Jews, three opinions". The exception to this is with ultra-Orthodox Jews, who believe that only their opinion counts, everyone else's is apikorsus (heresy). There is a wide variety of opinions on how to interpret parshat Bereschit (the Torah portion corresponding to the "Creation" story), even within the Orthodox movement. It is only the ultra-Orthodox who take a biblical literalist interpretation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
I can trace my lineage to the Graw (the Vilna Goan) who could trace his lineage back to Mount Sinai.
How is this relevant to anything? Boasting about one's yichus (lineage) is one of the shallowest things a Yid can do, and the fastest way to create a chillul hashem (desecration of God's name).
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Old 03-17-2014, 09:31 AM
 
864 posts, read 734,487 times
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Quote:
How is this relevant to anything? Boasting about one's yichus (lineage) is one of the shallowest things a Yid can do, and the fastest way to create a chillul hashem (desecration of God's name).
Oh, really? Since when is pointing out one's Yichus called "boasting", and what's the connection to chulul Hashem. The fastest way to chillul Hashem is when Jews don't keep Torah and mitzvos.

Are you jealous at TFF?
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Old 03-17-2014, 09:41 AM
 
Location: OC/LA
3,831 posts, read 3,708,253 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McDweller View Post
Yes, but I'm also aware some Christians don't take Adam and Eve so literally, considering population genetics.
As a percentage of overall Christians, I'm fairly certain more Christians believe in Adam and Eve literally than the population of Jews that believe in it compared to the overall Jewish population.

Sadly you chose to ignore my prior post so I'm not going to be surprised if this doesn't sink in either.
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Old 03-17-2014, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
939 posts, read 1,263,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
Oh, really? Since when is pointing out one's Yichus called "boasting", and what's the connection to chulul Hashem. The fastest way to chillul Hashem is when Jews don't keep Torah and mitzvos.

Are you jealous at TFF?
All of us Jews can trace our lineage to Avraham Avinu (Abraham our Father). That's the only yichus that matters.

Chillul hashem is doing things that make religious Jews look like pompous fools and discourage people from observing the Torah. If anything, TFF should not be discussing his yichus to describe the unbroken chain of mesorah if he was not FFB (frum (Orthodox) from birth), because in his case the chain was broken and whatever Torah he learned was not from his father but from a rabbi.

Should I be jealous of TFF? No, because I don't put value in yichus. I don't care if your yichus tree reads like a bunch of Gedolim (Torah giant) collector cards. A mamzer (illegitimate child) with good middot (spiritual values), derech eretz (being a good citizen), and ahavat yisrael (love of all Jews, not only Torah-observant ones) is the superior Jew in my book.
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Old 03-17-2014, 10:09 AM
 
864 posts, read 734,487 times
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Quote:
Chillul hashem is doing things that make religious Jews look like pompous fools and discourage people from observing the Torah. If anything, TFF should not be discussing his yichus to describe the unbroken chain of mesorah if he was not FFB (frum (Orthodox) from birth), because in his case the chain was broken and whatever Torah he learned was not from his father but from a rabbi.
That's not what Chillul Hashem means. According to your definition, wearing a shtreimel and a beard is a chilul Hashem because orthodox Jews look like buffoons wearing them. There's only ONE type of chillul Hashem--and that is when a Jew--ANY JEW--violates the Torah. Newsflash: Chillul Hashem is not reserved for orthodox Jews.Chilul Hashem has nothing to do with how gentiles perceive the Jew, it's about Jewish behavior.

TFF has every right to talk about his Yichus in the course of a conversation, and you sound like a jealous fool for calling him out on it.

With that said, my son-in-law is a Levi--that makes him a direct descendant of Moshe Rabeinu.

Quote:
All of us Jews can trace our lineage to Avraham Avinu (Abraham our Father). That's the only yichus that matters.
Sorry, but I can't. I do not know my Yichus for more than several generations.
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Old 03-17-2014, 10:11 AM
 
3,966 posts, read 3,349,384 times
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Simmer down folks. I only provided my yichus to show a fellow poster why I held that Adam and Chava were real people. To say they were not real people is the way Hiker and his ilk believe. If someone wants to align their beliefs with atheists, well, I guess go ahead. But don't do it in the name of Judaism.

Having anti-Torah beliefs does not make them legitimate, just because a Jew thinks them legitimate. Connecting ones beliefs to 3300 years of tradition does.
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Old 03-17-2014, 05:23 PM
 
181 posts, read 177,258 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperionGap View Post
Depends what Jew you ask.
I think this is the "prior post".

Okay. What is your opinion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperionGap View Post
As a percentage of overall Christians, I'm fairly certain more Christians believe in Adam and Eve literally than the population of Jews that believe in it compared to the overall Jewish population.

Sadly you chose to ignore my prior post so I'm not going to be surprised if this doesn't sink in either.
Okay. Cool.
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Old 03-17-2014, 05:42 PM
 
181 posts, read 177,258 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
I'm a Torah Jew. My mesorah (Jewish tradition) goes back 3300 years in an unbroken chain to Mount Sinai. I can trace my lineage to the Graw (the Vilna Goan) who could trace his lineage back to Mount Sinai.

Ask any Jew you want. But if they tell you Avraham Aveinu and Adam ha rishon were not real people, then they are not speaking for Judaism.
What does "Adam ha rishon" mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
Simmer down folks. I only provided my yichus to show a fellow poster why I held that Adam and Chava were real people. To say they were not real people is the way Hiker and his ilk believe. If someone wants to align their beliefs with atheists, well, I guess go ahead. But don't do it in the name of Judaism.

Having anti-Torah beliefs does not make them legitimate, just because a Jew thinks them legitimate. Connecting ones beliefs to 3300 years of tradition does.
What does "Chava" mean"?
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:13 PM
 
Location: Lake Worth, FL
388 posts, read 316,866 times
Reputation: 264
Chava is the Hebrew name of Eve (Chet-vav-hay).
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