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Old 03-27-2014, 07:14 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
5,147 posts, read 6,339,779 times
Reputation: 1561

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I was watching this Fox show where an African-American was kidding a Jew that his darkening skin was about a return to his African roots. Got me to thinking. Perhaps Hebrews were forced to create a national identity to survive until they became strong enough to actually conquer a piece of soil. Perhaps the whole connection to Sumeria was part of the attempt to give them noble roots. Wouldn't be unusual. The nations of Pre-Columbian America claim to ORIGINATE wherever they live despite evidence of movement over time. And for ethnic harmony and cohesion to exist, a nation must create a story about origins that all can identify with. We know that many of the Torah stories exist outside Israel. I think Israel was culturally permeable. I find they had a very long history of commerce with everyone around them and even with ancient India. I believe they got a lot of their gold from India where it is still a huge business. So American history with its underground railroad and Israeli history with Egypt as possible slave masters may have a lot in common. Egyptologists do not find any evidence of the Torah stories that had the Hebrews enslaved there. But I don't think that totally refutes the possibility.

Anyway, a swarthy Jew might indeed be reflecting African roots. Maybe they were even Numidians who were conquered at one time. I'm a swarthy Nordic which may reflect Asian roots.
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Old 03-27-2014, 07:17 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
939 posts, read 1,261,542 times
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You had me up to here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beenhere4ever View Post
I believe they got a lot of their gold from India where it is still a huge business.
o_O
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Old 03-27-2014, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,364 posts, read 24,104,739 times
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Jews with dark skin are most likely Sephardic Jews who primarily come from North Africa with their roots in Spain. Jews who are usually light brown to tan are usually Mizrahi and their roots are in Asia.
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Old 03-28-2014, 04:11 AM
 
Location: Minnesota
5,147 posts, read 6,339,779 times
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Well, of course, there shouldn't be any problem answering such a question with DNA. Even after the world has mixed to such a degree, there have to be traces. If the nation of Israel really had a Sumerian source, I think that would show. Though I don't know if any scientist has been motivated to pursue the question. I've heard you can't be a Jew unless your mother was. Which makes me wonder why. The father's ethnicity is as pure as the mother's. Plus I wonder what the theologians have done with the prediction that Abraham's descendants would be a huge nation. Yet, by strict laws Israel insure the opposite was the case. At what number did the global population of Jews peak? Did it ever reach a billion like the Chinese or Indians? Or maybe 99 percent of the Diaspora is being treated as alien?
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Old 03-28-2014, 04:35 AM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,364 posts, read 24,104,739 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beenhere4ever View Post
Well, of course, there shouldn't be any problem answering such a question with DNA.... At what number did the global population of Jews peak? Did it ever reach a billion like the Chinese or Indians? Or maybe 99 percent of the Diaspora is being treated as alien?
My DNA is Levant. Statistically it matches more with other Jews of Northern Israel rather than of the Arabs of the same region. As to the worldwide population, it peaked at around 17 Million before Hitler came to power with around 95% being in Diaspora. As to which countries we were considered alien in, you'd have to research that for yourself.
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Old 03-28-2014, 07:00 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,113,999 times
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I believe all of us are descended from Runaway African Slaves.

If we were able to identify all of our ancestors, I am confident we would find some who were born in what we now call Africa and who escaped from slavery.

So what?
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Old 03-28-2014, 07:15 AM
 
3,962 posts, read 3,342,692 times
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So what? This is just another attempt to delegitimize the Jews. Nothing new here.

Next thread.
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Minnesota
5,147 posts, read 6,339,779 times
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"Delegitimize"? Explain to me how escaping slavery is a fault. Explain to me how African roots is a fault. I suggest there are at least two kinds of bigotry involved in that judgment.
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:36 AM
 
864 posts, read 733,701 times
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Quote:
I was watching this Fox show where an African-American was kidding a Jew that his darkening skin was about a return to his African roots. Got me to thinking. Perhaps Hebrews were forced to create a national identity to survive until they became strong enough to actually conquer a piece of soil. Perhaps the whole connection to Sumeria was part of the attempt to give them noble roots. Wouldn't be unusual. The nations of Pre-Columbian America claim to ORIGINATE wherever they live despite evidence of movement over time. And for ethnic harmony and cohesion to exist, a nation must create a story about origins that all can identify with. We know that many of the Torah stories exist outside Israel. I think Israel was culturally permeable. I find they had a very long history of commerce with everyone around them and even with ancient India. I believe they got a lot of their gold from India where it is still a huge business. So American history with its underground railroad and Israeli history with Egypt as possible slave masters may have a lot in common. Egyptologists do not find any evidence of the Torah stories that had the Hebrews enslaved there. But I don't think that totally refutes the possibility.

Anyway, a swarthy Jew might indeed be reflecting African roots. Maybe they were even Numidians who were conquered at one time. I'm a swarthy Nordic which may reflect Asian roots.
Yeah, perhaps. So you just created a theory and now you need to build a loyal following who will find all the evidence you need to prove you right. Early Christians have done it, Muhammad has done it, Darwin has done it, so what not become the next guru (for lack of better word)?
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Old 03-28-2014, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Minnesota
5,147 posts, read 6,339,779 times
Reputation: 1561
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
Yeah, perhaps. So you just created a theory and now you need to build a loyal following who will find all the evidence you need to prove you right. Early Christians have done it, Muhammad has done it, Darwin has done it, so what not become the next guru (for lack of better word)?
Not really. I'm depending on accounts in the Torah. They own the theory that they were Egyptian slaves. Of course, there's no physical evidence for it. And I'm pretty sure that's double for anything from Jacob on back. Interesting how it has become a narrative that half the world bases their world view on. The single item in dispute, if that's what you want to call it, is the residence of these slaves before becoming slaves. And how exactly they came into this slavery. We also know approximately the time this was written down. The amount of time that elapsed is adequate to make assumption of factual errors, given the experience of science playing story telling games.

It occurred to me last night how interesting the flood story is. Does any religion anywhere in the world have a remorseful god swearing never to commit mass murder again? And what happened to that concept when the Jews who followed Jesus reformulated the god concept for their branch of Judaism? It is part of what makes a rational mind reel in considering Judeo-Christo-Islam. Maybe why there are so many bloody wars of all on all in that tradition. Even the mass murderers of Islam will pray before going out to murder. Why should it be contradictory given what they've inherited about Allah?
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