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For many of us, having our future spouse not share in our foundation and ideal environment for our life together and our future children means we are already incompatible.
I don't envy the position you're in or the decision you're faced with, but it seems like you're trying to find people to affirm the choice you want to make. But many, if not most of us, can't do that. Pruzhany suggested earlier that, from a relationship standpoint, you male a list of what you want and then narrow it down.
For many of us, our mate being Jewish is one of the things at the top of that list. Your list might be different.
Thank you. Without determining here and now if I would indeed go to those steps of marrying a non-Jew, in your opinion how would I be perceived among orthodox jews?
Many secular jews, question me the opposite, that why would I not consider a non-Jewish man as anyway my children will be jewish. But among orthodox jews, I fear they would not understand the difficult decisions I am facing and thus believing that I converted out of insincerity, not valuing and understanding what judaism is, and with no importance whether my children will stay within judaism. That is of course not the case. Finding a jewish partner is extremely important to me, but if I can't, I would not want to face a future without even having the chance of passing on judaism to my descendants.
Rachaeli, I am just the visiting Atheist who prowls this forum, so I don't have any advice about your situation. It is very nice to see a poster like you who is sincerely asking a question instead of just spouting off like most of us.
I do want to point out that I think your problem is common among both Christians and Muslims. Namely, women are often more religious than men, which makes it hard for them to find husbands who truly share their religious beliefs.
I know this sounds strange, but you may want to go to the Christianity forum and begin a topic like, "Is it a problem when a man is not as religious as his wife?", or something like that. You don't have to say you are Jewish. There seem to be a lot of women on that forum, so maybe they can give you additional insight into a situation like yours.
Thank you for the advice, but Christians (except maybe GO) have a completely different way of being religious. For them their faith is what counts the most. It is more about individuality. Judaism is a complex religion where being a part of a community, part of a people is part of it. Judaism is the religion of action, a lifestyle which is not possible to maintain if the partner is not wanting or can not join in.
On that part Islam is more equal to Judaism and indeed I have a muslim friend with whom I have discussed such questions.
But here I am solely interested in the jewish viewpoint.
Last edited by Racheli123; 01-27-2015 at 09:27 AM..
I know a few people who are MO and already in their early 50's and still not married or in any type of long term relationships.
Yes, I know some like that too. It is so sad to watch how much they have to share to the young in the community and which they never had the chance to pass on to their own children.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany
I think we had someone from Reno who posted a thread similar to yours within the past few years. She was in her 30's and oy did she have a list. For those of us in 20+ year relationships it's a work in progress at all times. Situations come up and compromises follow.
Yes, being in our 30's we have already found out who we are and what we want, having our good and bad habits so that it makes it really tricky to find someone who is compatible. As for me, I was not in the position of getting married before as I wanted to convert. And now I am sad to see that it might already be too late to make that jewish family I wanted since I was 18 y.
Last edited by Racheli123; 01-27-2015 at 09:37 AM..
Thank you. Without determining here and now if I would indeed go to those steps of marrying a non-Jew, in your opinion how would I be perceived among orthodox jews?
Many secular jews, question me the opposite, that why would I not consider a non-Jewish man as anyway my children will be jewish. But among orthodox jews, I fear they would not understand the difficult decisions I am facing and thus believing that I converted out of insincerity, not valuing and understanding what judaism is, and with no importance whether my children will stay within judaism. That is of course not the case. Finding a jewish partner is extremely important to me, but if I can't, I would not want to face a future without even having the chance of passing on judaism to my descendants.
I think you're going to find a lot of mixed reactions; some people with react wholely on the basis of halakah, and others are going to be more inclined to see the issues you faced.
I think you're going to find a lot of mixed reactions; some people with react wholely on the basis of halakah, and others are going to be more inclined to see the issues you faced.
Thanks. My rabbi and the bet din would be the hardest to face, as they would base their reasoning only on halakha. The rest can have the opinions they want as long as I know the truth about it.
Anyway, when it comes down to it, I don't know if I would actually go to the point of marrying in a church (which would mean I went against my principles and identity).
Now at least I have heard all of your opinions on this and had to face questions also outside of my own mind. Makes me feel a little bit lighter, though the problem is not solved.
It is very nice to see a poster like you who is sincerely asking a question instead of just spouting off like most of us.
Btw, I am happy to have found this forum. I have been wanting to find a forum which has mixed religions, levels of observance, viewpoints etc. Maybe I'll pop in once in a while with some of my many questions which needs a good amount of discussions.
I think the original question was a good question, a difficult question, and certainly a very serious one. Somewhat to my surprise, I found most of Pruzhany's answers closest to my own thinking.
I will say that I believe that this forum is not such a great place to be looking for answers. First off, there aren't many orthodox posters here. Of course, orthodox opinions may be a bit limited in that most will simply parrot halacha, which is OK, but you already know that, I think.
The one striking thing missing is consultation with orthodox rabbis. Plural. You mention your own rabbi and the relevant beis din, but that's it, and you don't want to talk with them, anyway. You need to find a few more rabbis, probably out of town, to consult with. You should even consider discussing this with a Conservative or even Reform "rabbi," not that you should consider them authoritative in any way, but that doesn't mean they mightn't have a useful observation or two.
Yes, I know some like that too. It is so sad to watch how much they have to share to the young in the community and which they never had the chance to pass on to their own children.
Yes, being in our 30's we have already found out who we are and what we want, having our good and bad habits so that it makes it really tricky to find someone who is compatible. As for me, I was not in the position of getting married before as I wanted to convert. And now I am sad to see that it might already be too late to make that jewish family I wanted since I was 18 y.
I think the original question was a good question, a difficult question, and certainly a very serious one. Somewhat to my surprise, I found most of Pruzhany's answers closest to my own thinking.
I will say that I believe that this forum is not such a great place to be looking for answers. First off, there aren't many orthodox posters here. Of course, orthodox opinions may be a bit limited in that most will simply parrot halacha, which is OK, but you already know that, I think.
The one striking thing missing is consultation with orthodox rabbis. Plural. You mention your own rabbi and the relevant beis din, but that's it, and you don't want to talk with them, anyway. You need to find a few more rabbis, probably out of town, to consult with. You should even consider discussing this with a Conservative or even Reform "rabbi," not that you should consider them authoritative in any way, but that doesn't mean they mightn't have a useful observation or two.
Best wishes.
Thanks. You are right. Do you know of some forums where 1) orthodox posters with a "critical" and "reflected" mind hang out? Preferably mixed with posters of multiple levels of observance but not required, and 2) I think aish.com is a good site and maybe I'll try asking my question(s) there directly to a rabbi. Any other suggestions within the different levels of observance? Where I live Jews are a rarity, so not many options to discuss with rabbis except through Internet...
Well, not exactly. At 18 I was introduced to Judaism. It is not like I woke up one day and thought converting would be a great idea. It was very gradual, with ups and downs, testing, stopping and doing during years, until I realized I already identified as jewish
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