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What horrible Jews... Sorry your trip to Al Quds didn't go so well. I was planning on taking a trip to Mecca and Riyadh this year.. Would you think there would be any issues with me wearing my Kippa and Tallit and davening near the Hajj? By the way, you know any kosher restaurants there in Riyadh? If you know any Jewish tour services of the area, please let me know. I would like to take the Jewish tour of Saudi Arabia, as the Jewish heritage of the country I find very intriguing.
I am sure I will receive a kind and warm reception, since Muslims are peaceful and accepting.
Yeah, we Jews are just conquering and taking too much land... You want to talk about Greed?? Conquest? How about I post a map of the amount of land in the hands of Arabians compared to that of Jews...
From Yemen to North Africa to Southeast Asia, did Mohammad and his armies make conquests and expand the Arabian empire. People of many cultures, religions, ethnic groups all suddenly spoke one language, "Arabic" and followed one religion "Islam". Afghanistan and Pakistan, for example, use to be Hindu and Buddhist countries before the Islamic conquests. Even, just recently some of the ancient Buddhist artifacts in Afghanistan were destroyed by the Taliban as they wanted to erase any remnants of pre-Islamic history of the nation.
Here is the amount of land currently in the possession by Arabs compared to the land possessed by Jews:
Perhaps, the statement you have made you should reserve for yourself, Cousin.. As we speak, Arabian armies, ISIS, are on a quest to conquer the entire Middle East and it is they who are going to invade Damascus, not we Jews. Somehow, you are claiming that we are seeking to conquer the world? Almost all the wars that have been instigated in the last 80 years have been Jews trying to defend a very small sliver of land against constant Arab attacks from all sides.
Of course, if you have studied history in Arabic countries, you probably were taught Israel was the aggressor in all cases..
Not all Jews want the "Euphrates to the Nile" but those settlers that I met in Hebron certainly did and were very aggressive to passive travellers that were simply sight seeing. What sort of people welcome tourists with "F*** YOUR JESUS" when we had done literally nothing but walk a street.
And keep in mind our conquests resulted in your people's ability to return to Jerusalem and actually pray on the temple mount. If you're curious about where I've learned about the Arab-Israeli conflict...it was actually from an Israeli-Jewish professor in an American University. He was for all intents and purposes, a realist and very practical. I commend his teaching as it was simply factual and unbias in nature.
Not all Jews want the "Euphrates to the Nile" but those settlers that I met in Hebron certainly did and were very aggressive to passive travellers that were simply sight seeing. What sort of people welcome tourists with "F*** YOUR JESUS" when we had done literally nothing but walk a street.
And keep in mind our conquests resulted in your people's ability to return to Jerusalem and actually pray on the temple mount. If you're curious about where I've learned about the Arab-Israeli conflict...it was actually from an Israeli-Jewish professor in an American University. He was for all intents and purposes, a realist and very practical. I commend his teaching as it was simply factual and unbias in nature.
I am not denying that certain Muslim leaders and countries helped preserve Jewish culture and heritage and that there was Christians who sought to destroy Jewish culture. But, the cradle rocked both ways and there was plenty of Jewish culture destroyed by Islamic leadership as well. For example, the Mufti of Jerusalem, Mufti Mohammad Amin Al-Husseini, worked very hard and conspired with Adolf Hitler to rid the Jews from Jerusalem, altogether. He had Jews executed for going to the Kotel and attempting to pray. He also became the leader of the SS in Bosnia. After WWII and in 1948, he became the first leader of the PLO.
As far as Jewish animosity towards Christians.. Well, maybe you just answered your first question. The CHristians wouldn't even let us go to pray in Jerusalem. However, the Ottoman Sultans who tolerated the Jewish religion were considerably more tolerant and accepting than their Salafi counterparts in the Southern Arabian lands who were as intolerant to Judaism as the Catholic crusaders.
My grandmother feared Easter Day in Belarus. They would go through the villages many times engaging in pogroms to punish us for what we did to Jesus. Many Christians go to Israel and mock Judaism and engage in missionizing. I wonder what would happen if these Christian missionary types decided to go to an Islamic country and engage in these activities? Yet, these same Christians will say how racist and intolerant the Jews are. It actually makes me laugh.
Oh yeah, can I count the number of times I have been called a "Christ Killer"? I bet you would have much less of a problem with Jews being called "Christ Killers", then with Jews insulting Jesus to Christians. I've been attacked and insulted many times for killing Jesus and committing all types of crimes, yet somehow if a Jew makes a bad comment, he is racist and evil.. ANti-Semitism is never taken seriously, even to this day, but demonization of Jews will never end.
Considering that 6,000,000 Jews were murdered to punish them for what they supposedly did 2000 years ago also leaves a rather bitter taste of Christianity in the mouths of many Jews.
There are many great Christian people who respect Jews, Israel and whom I admire. However, I am just trying to share you the sentiment that many Jews have and why you may encounter some hostility going to these areas of religious and culturally strong Jews.
The Jews in Tel Aviv, you admire, because they do not follow Jewish culture and most are atheistic. Many of them just want to enjoy a secular and non-Jewish lifestyle and don't feel any deep attachment or are willing to defend their heritage, religion and even culture. Partying, Sex, Booze, Drugs, Making Money and Doing Business are ways to numb themselves from the reality around them and why many of them even came to Israel in the first place.
One thing I admire about MUslims and Arabs is they are very strong in their culture, religion and defending themselves. THey also shun the secular lifestyle. Somehow, you feel it is justified for a Muslim to defend his culture and heritage, but if Jews do so that is threatening. Well, I feel the same way about you.
I am pro-Israeli. I fully support Israel's right to exist. I'm not sure where your hate comes from. I have said nothing anti-Israeli besides that Israel is too religious for me, aside from TLV. TLV doesn't hate Arabs and Muslims. Not all Arabs and Muslims hate Jews either. The Orthodox who hate Muslims/Arabs are just as bad as some the radical Muslims. Be the bigger people and create the nation of Palestine next to the nation of Israel. Then the anti-Israelis can't say much about "Apartheid Israel" when there is no basis for that statement anymore. I just don't think the Orthodox need to be so hateful towards anyone that's not Orthodox. Jesus was born in Israel. Christians should be welcomed to Israel as well. It is their holy land.
I think you need to relax a little and not jump to such harsh conclusions. I never once said anything anti-Israeli. Maybe if you calmed down and articulated your points academically, you could get your point across easier. I studied the conflict at an American Jesuit university. And yes, I'm Jewish. I have friends of all religions and nationalities. There's no need for the hate you're spewing on this forum to fellow Jews. Just because some Arab nations are intolerant of Jews doesn't mean we need to act the same. We need to be the bigger people and show acceptance of all people.
The Jews in Tel Aviv, you admire, because they do not follow Jewish culture and most are atheistic. Many of them just want to enjoy a secular and non-Jewish lifestyle and don't feel any deep attachment or are willing to defend their heritage, religion and even culture. Partying, Sex, Booze, Drugs,Making Money and Doing BUsiness are ways to numb themselves from the reality around them and why many of them even came to Israel in the first place.
Just because a Jew lives in Tel Aviv doesn't mean they don't follow Jewish culture and most aren't atheistic. You are generalizing way too much about tel avivian. Just because someone is secular does not mean they don't follow any Jewish culture. No one is numb to the reality around them .There are different levels of someone being secular. Partying,Sex, Booze, Drugs,Making money and doing business happens all over Israel. It is not something that is unique to Tel Aviv. Tel Avivian like to live life without stress and enjoy one self. It does not mean they don't have any attachment nor willing to defend their heritage, religion and culture.
At the risk of being suspected as a troll, someone wrote in the atheism/agnosticism forum recently "jews don't like non-jews." Do you believe that's accurate? Not just for you but for other jews you know? Why or why not? Btw I am an atheist who was raised catholic.
The Orthodox who hate Muslims/Arabs are just as bad as some the radical Muslims.
I don't agree.. I haven't heard of many cases of Orthodox Jews going to Islamic schools and gunning down their children and religious leaders. However, I have heard plenty of cases of Muslims going to Jewish schools , synagogues and grocery stores and murdering people indiscriminately. Yes, being racist against Muslims is bad. And, I am sure some Orthodox Jews are, but I don't believe they are as bad or as radical as their Muslim counterparts (if we must call them that).
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemh431
Be the bigger people and create the nation of Palestine next to the nation of Israel. Then the anti-Israelis can't say much about "Apartheid Israel" when there is no basis for that statement anymore.
Two State SOlution and then there will be peace.. Are you so naive to believe that? In reality, there will never be peace until there are no Jews left in Israel. It is an unfortunate situation, but I don't truly believe Muslims will ever accept having a Jewish neighbor next door. Most Palestinians believe all of Israel belongs to them. Look at Gaza for an example. The Jews gave the Palestinians, Gaza, and what did they do? Instead of using the greenhouses that the Israeli government gave them to go crops, they turned them into missile and weapons manufacturing facilities. The people decided to elect , in a free election, who into power? The Hamas! What is the Hamas's manifesto declare? The eradication of the State of Israel. For you to think giving away land will bring peace is the typical naive gesture that is continually feeding this crisis. I know you mean well, but I am sad to say, like Gaza, it will never end well. The Pre-1967 borders are no longer defendable either.. Israel also has 1,000,000 Muslims to support who live within the Jewish territory. THere is not even 1,000,000 Jewish people living in a much larger country like Morocco. Yet, the burden of Israel's socialist government is to support all these people with such limited land and resources? Think about reality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemh431
I just don't think the Orthodox need to be so hateful towards anyone that's not Orthodox. Jesus was born in Israel. Christians should be welcomed to Israel as well. It is their holy land.
Jews should not be hateful towards anyone. It is Yetzer Hara for a Jew to look down on a fellow Jew. If a girl is inappropriately dressed in a religious town and breaking minhag she should not be spit on. That is juvenile and futile. She should be told to cover up and respect her surroundings. I don't believe she should be forced to either, but people have the right to make dirty looks. Just like if a Chassid walked into a bar of secular Jews having fun he would be given dirty looks and laughed at, especially if he starts doing something awkward like reciting Shema with Tefillin.
I agree Christians should be welcomed as long as they don't try to force themselves on Jews. If you do remember, Jews were chased out of Europe by fanatical Christians. We don't need Israel to become a place of fanatical Christianity either. And, there are many fanatical Christians who go to Israel trying to promote their ideologies. Even, the Catholic/Orthodox Christian churches own/have possession of many of the holy sites that were considered holy to Jews in their own land.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemh431
I think you need to relax a little and not jump to such harsh conclusions. I never once said anything anti-Israeli. Maybe if you calmed down and articulated your points academically, you could get your point across easier. I studied the conflict at an American Jesuit university.
Studying about Anti-Semitism at a "Jesuit" university seems a little, umm, in bad taste. Sorry, don't mean to knock your place of study, but I just hope you were educated without bias and that there was not too much rationalization of the Jesuit influence of Anti-Semitism, itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemh431
And yes, I'm Jewish. I have friends of all religions and nationalities. There's no need for the hate you're spewing on this forum to fellow Jews. Just because some Arab nations are intolerant of Jews doesn't mean we need to act the same. We need to be the bigger people and show acceptance of all people.
I don't hate you, but I am just confronting and discussing an issue. The fact you interpret this as hate just represents your own reservations to me. I've never hated you, but rather defending the integrity of Jewish people. Indeed, I feel as I am hated for not agreeing with the sentiments of the more left-wing or liberal Jewish people. Some will hate other Jews for defending the Orthodox or refuting arguments that critique Jewish nationalism or Orthodoxy.
I've encountered a lot of what I feel is hate from Reformists and other liberal Jews since I don't vote Demorcrat, support a Two State Solution or that I respect or follow Orthodox Judaism.
That area is a hotbed for violence and hatred from both sides. You should have left the tour and taken a walk in the Arab areas where there aren't Jews. You would've found some of the people openly aggressive to anyone that looked like a Westerner and you would've seen open trash dumps in empty lots.
I don't agree.. I haven't heard of many cases of Orthodox Jews going to Islamic schools and gunning down their children and religious leaders. However, I have heard plenty of cases of Muslims going to Jewish schools , synagogues and grocery stores and murdering people indiscriminately. Yes, being racist against Muslims is bad. And, I am sure some Orthodox Jews are, but I don't believe they are as bad or as radical as their Muslim counterparts (if we must call them that).
Two State SOlution and then there will be peace.. Are you so naive to believe that? In reality, there will never be peace until there are no Jews left in Israel. It is an unfortunate situation, but I don't truly believe Muslims will ever accept having a Jewish neighbor next door. Most Palestinians believe all of Israel belongs to them. Look at Gaza for an example. The Jews gave the Palestinians, Gaza, and what did they do? Instead of using the greenhouses that the Israeli government gave them to go crops, they turned them into missile and weapons manufacturing facilities. The people decided to elect , in a free election, who into power? The Hamas! What is the Hamas's manifesto declare? The eradication of the State of Israel. For you to think giving away land will bring peace is the typical naive gesture that is continually feeding this crisis. I know you mean well, but I am sad to say, like Gaza, it will never end well. The Pre-1967 borders are no longer defendable either.. Israel also has 1,000,000 Muslims to support who live within the Jewish territory. THere is not even 1,000,000 Jewish people living in a much larger country like Morocco. Yet, the burden of Israel's socialist government is to support all these people with such limited land and resources? Think about reality.
Jews should not be hateful towards anyone. It is Yetzer Hara for a Jew to look down on a fellow Jew. If a girl is inappropriately dressed in a religious town and breaking minhag she should not be spit on. That is juvenile and futile. She should be told to cover up and respect her surroundings. I don't believe she should be forced to either, but people have the right to make dirty looks. Just like if a Chassid walked into a bar of secular Jews having fun he would be given dirty looks and laughed at, especially if he starts doing something awkward like reciting Shema with Tefillin.
I agree Christians should be welcomed as long as they don't try to force themselves on Jews. If you do remember, Jews were chased out of Europe by fanatical Christians. We don't need Israel to become a place of fanatical Christianity either. And, there are many fanatical Christians who go to Israel trying to promote their ideologies. Even, the Catholic/Orthodox Christian churches own/have possession of many of the holy sites that were considered holy to Jews in their own land.
Studying about Anti-Semitism at a "Jesuit" university seems a little, umm, in bad taste. Sorry, don't mean to knock your place of study, but I just hope you were educated without bias and that there was not too much rationalization of the Jesuit influence of Anti-Semitism, itself.
I don't hate you, but I am just confronting and discussing an issue. The fact you interpret this as hate just represents your own reservations to me. I've never hated you, but rather defending the integrity of Jewish people. Indeed, I feel as I am hated for not agreeing with the sentiments of the more left-wing or liberal Jewish people. Some will hate other Jews for defending the Orthodox or refuting arguments that critique Jewish nationalism or Orthodoxy.
I've encountered a lot of what I feel is hate from Reformists and other liberal Jews since I don't vote Demorcrat, support a Two State Solution or that I respect or follow Orthodox Judaism.
Why Can't the Jews just agree to die?
LOL, it would seem that this is the attitude of the world. Genocide against Jews being talked about in this day and age, and the world community don't even blink an eye. If Genocide was being called against any other people, the world community would stand up and say something, but when it is Jews, they can't figure out why Israel just wont agree to die.
..... Not to mention that an Arab guy walked into a synagogue just recently in Jerusalem, who was an Arab employee of the synagogue and decided to gun down 6 of our rabbis while they were at prayer. Of course, we are just dealing with close-minded racist Jews here..
.....
And what was the name of that town where the synagogue sat before Jews moved in after 1948? I'll give you a hint: D.Y.
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