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Old 01-04-2016, 07:45 AM
 
Location: NJ
2,675 posts, read 1,253,478 times
Reputation: 1280

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
I am so tired that there now three of you who in my point of view don't have enough knowledge together to make up what would be a Rabbi. We now have one who claims to be one and two who try to emulate a Rabbi but know nothing more than what you can parrot out. And you, Rosends, who claims to be a Rabbi have lost your path in understanding what it takes to become one and having a PhD is not one of them. Furthermore why don't you take time a to read your own link and think about what is written there.
You clearly misunderstand a number of issues. First, your decision that I have "lost [my] path in understanding" is bizarre and grounded in nothing. Next, you have completely lost track of why the issue of a PhD was brought up -- to point out that if you don't understand the arcane point made by a scholar, and you lack commensurate learning, you don't have the same position to argue it.

And you clearly don't understand the quote from the text. The issue at hand is not about asking questions and struggling with earlier statements -- the example in the quote relates to not understanding and trying to learn. Not not understanding so throwing it out. The problem arose from the claim that "I accept anything that makes sense...I say what is the difference between me understanding something versus a Rabbi understanding something". My counter point was that a lack of understanding of what a scholar has said should drive the individual to learn more about what the statement means, not reject it and replace it with a personal reading because he elevates himself to a position of equal status, even without all the contextual and background learning.

Feel free to be tired of whatever tuckers you out. I also don't need your haskama on my smicha. And try to follow a thread before you wade in and display a lack of contextual knowledge.

 
Old 01-04-2016, 08:00 AM
 
Location: No
467 posts, read 350,564 times
Reputation: 377
How big was Og's bed?
 
Old 01-04-2016, 08:15 AM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,707 posts, read 30,666,305 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
of course it does

it is through the doing that we gain the understanding
we will do and we will hear, is done in that order
not the other way around

"study is not the main thing, but action" Pirkei Avot 1:17

"He must do more than he understands. He cannot fulfill G-d's word only after he's figured it out and has made sense out of it. He must first do and only then attempt to understand."

--from this article on line: Pirkei Avos - Torah.org
This is the problem of having no Yeshiva education and having to parrot everything you hear. Those of us who had a Orthodox education discussed everything from first grade forward. When we prayed, we were told what the words meant. We didn't just memorize words and parrot them. One reads a daily portion of the Torah to learn it and not to memorize it.
 
Old 01-04-2016, 08:46 AM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,707 posts, read 30,666,305 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
You clearly misunderstand a number of issues. First, your decision that I have "lost [my] path in understanding" is bizarre and grounded in nothing. Next, you have completely lost track of why the issue of a PhD was brought up -- to point out that if you don't understand the arcane point made by a scholar, and you lack commensurate learning, you don't have the same position to argue it.

And you clearly don't understand the quote from the text. The issue at hand is not about asking questions and struggling with earlier statements -- the example in the quote relates to not understanding and trying to learn. Not not understanding so throwing it out. The problem arose from the claim that "I accept anything that makes sense...I say what is the difference between me understanding something versus a Rabbi understanding something". My counter point was that a lack of understanding of what a scholar has said should drive the individual to learn more about what the statement means, not reject it and replace it with a personal reading because he elevates himself to a position of equal status, even without all the contextual and background learning.

Feel free to be tired of whatever tuckers you out. I also don't need your haskama on my smicha. And try to follow a thread before you wade in and display a lack of contextual knowledge.
I didn't misunderstand anything. I know how dangerous you and the two Ba'al Teshuvas are.

In our congregation we caught one Rabbi who spun many things in the beginning, but when the truth came out we got rid of him.


Read up on Rabbi Yitzchak Zev (Joseph) Kolakowski.

Lite reading included:
Congregation Kol Emes (Richmond, Virginia) : definition of Congregation Kol Emes (Richmond, Virginia) and synonyms of Congregation Kol Emes (Richmond, Virginia) (English)
 
Old 01-04-2016, 09:49 AM
 
Location: NJ
2,675 posts, read 1,253,478 times
Reputation: 1280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
I didn't misunderstand anything. I know how dangerous you and the two Ba'al Teshuvas are.

In our congregation we caught one Rabbi who spun many things in the beginning, but when the truth came out we got rid of him.


Read up on Rabbi Yitzchak Zev (Joseph) Kolakowski.

Lite reading included:
Congregation Kol Emes (Richmond, Virginia) : definition of Congregation Kol Emes (Richmond, Virginia) and synonyms of Congregation Kol Emes (Richmond, Virginia) (English)
So because you caught a rabbi, I should be told that I am dangerous.

Makes perfect sense.
 
Old 01-04-2016, 10:16 AM
 
22,011 posts, read 19,117,250 times
Reputation: 18149
my experience is that someone who treats halacha as optional only if they feel like it
is more dangerous and does far greater harm
than someone who seeks to put into practice Pirkei Avot
 
Old 01-04-2016, 10:29 AM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,707 posts, read 30,666,305 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
So because you caught a rabbi, I should be told that I am dangerous.

Makes perfect sense.

When you type something in Hebrew that less than 1% of CD can understand to place yourself on a pedestal as what Judaism is or should be, is what is dangerous. As what is stated in this partial quote that could have simply been typed in English with the correct context.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
.... I also don't need your haskama on my smicha....
But you are correct in saying you don't need my endorsements of your Rabbinic ordination (translation of what was typed by rosends), but if you're going to throw it out at everyone and want to be seen as one then act like one.
 
Old 01-04-2016, 10:51 AM
 
4,729 posts, read 4,350,824 times
Reputation: 1578
My Rav once told me a story that has always stuck with me. He himself is a BT - he came to Yiddishkite in his early 20s. When he met his now wife, she was a FFB also seriously dating. The rebbitzen spoke to her Rav. Here was the delimna: she liked my Rav, but he was still a bit raw with only a few years of formal learning. She liked another boy who was FFB like her, but he was heading the other direction, i.e. considering becoming modern orthodox. Her Rav have her a passionate plea to drop the FFB heading "the wrong direction " and to marry the BT (my Rav) who was not as learned but hashkofically was heading in the right direction.

Bottom line, a BT who is doing everything in their power to learn and know Hashem is a million times more trustworthy than a FFB who rejects Torah sh'bal peh. It's not about what you know, but rather where you are heading that matters.
 
Old 01-04-2016, 11:02 AM
 
Location: NJ
2,675 posts, read 1,253,478 times
Reputation: 1280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
When you type something in Hebrew that less than 1% of CD can understand to place yourself on a pedestal as what Judaism is or should be, is what is dangerous. As what is stated in this partial quote that could have simply been typed in English with the correct context.
When I type in a Jewish subforum Jewish concepts, using the language of Judaism that is dangerous? You have a skewed view of danger. And by quoting material in the language in which it was written, I am putting myself on a pedestal? God forbid I translate into English and use a word you don't know. I would then be a monster, no doubt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post

But you are correct in saying you don't need my endorsements of your Rabbinic ordination (translation of what was typed by rosends), but if you're going to throw it out at everyone and want to be seen as one then act like one.
Again, you miss context (and approbation is a better word than endorsement). There was a question about rejecting what a rabbi said. I said that the speaker was doing the same thing and I proffered my smicha as evidence. If you don't like evidence to back up claims, just say so. If you would prefer a rabbi who makes statements unsupported by evidence, just let me know.
 
Old 01-04-2016, 11:23 AM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,707 posts, read 30,666,305 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
My Rav once told me a story that has always stuck with me. He himself is a BT - he came to Yiddishkite in his early 20s. When he met his now wife, she was a FFB also seriously dating. The rebbitzen spoke to her Rav. Here was the delimna: she liked my Rav, but he was still a bit raw with only a few years of formal learning. She liked another boy who was FFB like her, but he was heading the other direction, i.e. considering becoming modern orthodox. Her Rav have her a passionate plea to drop the FFB heading "the wrong direction " and to marry the BT (my Rav) who was not as learned but hashkofically was heading in the right direction.

Bottom line, a BT who is doing everything in their power to learn and know Hashem is a million times more trustworthy than a FFB who rejects Torah sh'bal peh. It's not about what you know, but rather where you are heading that matters.
Problem here is that we have to separate out the truth from all storytelling you typed. If you as a BT were learning anything, then you would be able to distinguish between both Talmuds and discuss them. You've had enough years to do so. Yet you've chosen to parrot what someone else has stated to be truth without learning if it's so. If all you do is parrot then your million equates to zero. At least I as a FFB, I read and learned both can make my own decision. The Judaism you have chosen is stagnation. Mine is not.
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