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I suppose the sect of the Sadducees (sp?) believed when you die that's the end of you, so they would not have believed in eternal torments (ET) or any afterlife punishment for evildoers like Hitler.
But i've heard it said the much more influential Pharisees (& Essenes) preached ET.
What do the experts say? Any scholars here?
BTW it seems Jesus was constantly at odds with the Pharisees re their practices & views. And it is debated whether St. Paul, a former leading Pharisee, believed in universal salvation.
Cheers ;
Yom HaDin, the Day of Judgment. It was seen that on this day, G-d would sit in court and all men would pass before Him to be judged. Three great books will be opened as each man is weighed in the balance and placed into one of three categories (Talmud, Rosh HaShanah 6b). It has been taught that the school of Shammai says that there will be three classes on the final Day of Judgment, one of the wholly righteous, one of the wholly wicked, and one of the intermediates. The wholly righteous are at once inscribed and sealed for life in the world to come; the wholly wicked are at once inscribed and sealed for perdition (Talmud, Rosh HaShanah 16b-17a).
From Soul Talk - Kaddish and memorial: aiding the soul's ascent - Death & Mourning
"This is the main idea behind the recital of the Kaddish in merit of a departed soul. While Kaddish is commonly known as the "mourners prayer," a reading of the text reveals that it is not about death or mourning, but the public proclamation of G‑d's greatness. By rising from the depths of anguish and loss to offer praise to G‑d, we transform the event of death into an act of life."
Yeshayahu 33:14 Sinners in Zion were afraid; trembling seized the flatterers, 'Who will stand up for us against a consuming fire? Who will stand up for us against the everlasting fires?'
Mishlei 29:1 A man who requires reproof but stiffens his nape, will suddenly be broken without cure.
Mishlei 11:7 When a wicked man dies, hope is lost, and the expectation of his children is lost.
Kohelet 9:3 This is the most evil in all that is done under the sun, that all have one occurrence, and also the heart of the children of men is full of evil, and there is madness in their heart in their lifetime, and after that they go to the dead.
A.W. Pink: O the blinding power of sin! O the deceitfulness of riches! O the perversity of the human heart! Nothing so reveals these things as the incredible sight of men and women enjoying themselves and being at rest, while they are suspended over the eternal burning by the frail thread of mortality, which may be snapped at any moment.
Yeshayahu 33:14 Sinners in Zion were afraid; trembling seized the flatterers, 'Who will stand up for us against a consuming fire? Who will stand up for us against the everlasting fires?'
Mishlei 29:1 A man who requires reproof but stiffens his nape, will suddenly be broken without cure.
Mishlei 11:7 When a wicked man dies, hope is lost, and the expectation of his children is lost.
Kohelet 9:3 This is the most evil in all that is done under the sun, that all have one occurrence, and also the heart of the children of men is full of evil, and there is madness in their heart in their lifetime, and after that they go to the dead.
A.W. Pink: O the blinding power of sin! O the deceitfulness of riches! O the perversity of the human heart! Nothing so reveals these things as the incredible sight of men and women enjoying themselves and being at rest, while they are suspended over the eternal burning by the frail thread of mortality, which may be snapped at any moment.
He who has an ear, let him hear.
It's pretty obvious that you don't read the Tanakh:
Yeshayahu 33:
14Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, and I will establish the good thing that I spoke concerning the house of Israel and the house of Judah.
That good thing would be the New Covenant that He establishes...
And why would you quote an calvinistic evangelical bible teacher in a Jewish forum?...
Yeshayahu 33:14 Sinners in Zion were afraid; trembling seized the flatterers, 'Who will stand up for us against a consuming fire? Who will stand up for us against the everlasting fires?'
Mishlei 29:1 A man who requires reproof but stiffens his nape, will suddenly be broken without cure.
Mishlei 11:7 When a wicked man dies, hope is lost, and the expectation of his children is lost.
Kohelet 9:3 This is the most evil in all that is done under the sun, that all have one occurrence, and also the heart of the children of men is full of evil, and there is madness in their heart in their lifetime, and after that they go to the dead.
A.W. Pink: O the blinding power of sin! O the deceitfulness of riches! O the perversity of the human heart! Nothing so reveals these things as the incredible sight of men and women enjoying themselves and being at rest, while they are suspended over the eternal burning by the frail thread of mortality, which may be snapped at any moment.
He who has an ear, let him hear.
It's pretty obvious that you don't read the Tanakh and take the time to understand what you are reading within its context. You can't take one sentence out of a paragraph and expect it to stand alone without the context you dragged it out of. I'm not going to turn this into a Talmud lecture, but I'll give you a link for Isaiah 33:14 that puts it in a perspective that you should be able to understand.
T
The average person descends to a place of punishment and/or purification, generally referred to as Gehinnom (guh-hee-NOHM) (in Yiddish, Gehenna), but sometimes as She'ol or by other names. According to one mystical view, every sin we commit creates an angel of destruction (a demon), and after we die we are punished by the very demons that we created. Some views see Gehinnom as one of severe punishment, a bit like the Christian Hell of fire and brimstone. Other sources merely see it as a time when we can see the actions of our lives objectively, see the harm that we have done and the opportunities we missed, and experience remorse for our actions.
Correct. proper way to describe this is as follows (you may refer to "doer" as "soul" for ease of understanding)
A period of suffering begins as the doer now enters the first stage of hell. There are in hell no torturers, no fire, no brimstone, no foul smelling waters, nor any of the infernal agonies which theologians of various religions have fabricated for a multitude whom they have damned to suffer them. Nor is there a cloven-hoofed, fork-tailed devil. Yet there is suffering in hell for sinful thoughts and acts while on earth; there is also a devil, its own devil. The breath-form, on which all thoughts, their exteriorizations, and their effects had left their marks, which were illuminated and adjudged by the Light at the time of judgment, now shows the pictures one by one. As they come the doer lives through the desires it then had. The persons and objects connected with the desires are there, but there is no physical body and no means of satisfying the desires. Desires can never be satisfied; they can be weakened for the time by the exhaustion of the physical means of gratification. The more desires are fed, the stronger they get and the more the means of gratification are weakened. That was so in the physical world, but now on the form plane of the physical or the form world, the doer has the desires again and no means of gratifying them. They rage. The ordinary person with his desires for food, for sexual intercourse, for drink and for comfort, in their various forms, suffers by having these desires without any means of gratifying them. There is a hunger, a burning desire for
242 THINKING AND DESTINY
satisfaction which eats into the doer without destroying it. Normal and moderate appetites do not produce this suffering in hell, but only the inordinate, intemperate, vicious desires which the doer felt to be wrong. Selfishness and covetousness in the past life, the desire to possess the things of others and to hold them for oneself, return to the doer in hell, but all physical things have been swept away together with the means of getting them. The doer longs and this longing pains like the pangs of hunger. Arrogance in life will come back to the doer after death and then the doer has the arrogant desires, but where there is no wealth, power or station, there is an emptiness which consumes the doer itself. These feelings of hunger, of burning, of being consumed, are similar to the physical states. The difference is that the fleshly body is not there, but the doer has its breath-form with its four senses, and it feels and yet it is not destroyed by the feeling. The devil that accompanies the doer through hell is its ruling and chief desire, which was its evil genius in life and is its devil after death. The lesser desires are the little devils under the chief. None of the devils has form here; they cry, they pull on the doer; they goad, strain and burn, each according to its own appetite, longing or lust. Of the sins against one’s own body and against itself the doer lives over only the desires in this psychic state. The sins against the bodies and doers of others produce a different effect. The doer lives over not only the desires which were involved in those sinful thoughts and acts, it is accused by the people whom it wronged. Those who inflicted injuries or death by violence, by criminal negligence or by adulterated food; landlords or employers who caused the degradation of their tenants’ or workers’ bodies; the rulers, statesmen and party politicians who connived at such wrongs; cruel prison keepers, hard or indifferent judges, and those who sinned against the doers of others by encouragement to acts of indulgence: these hear again the accusations and the things they knew of in life; they see their victims, sacrificed to their greed, selfishness, corruption and indifference; they see them and they feel what the victims felt—pain, disease, shame, degradation and despair. This phase of hell is worse than the sufferings of those who wronged only themselves.
243PSYCHIC DESTINY
All the doers in hell suffer, but they do not learn anything there, they do not repent, they have no remorse. The opportunity for learning can come only on earth in the next life. The suffering is not for the sake of punishment but to purify the breath-form. Punishment also is reserved for the next life on earth.
There is no "time" in afterlife. Please. There is only accomplishment. Whatever it takes.
The 12 months he is speaking of is not haolam haba (the world to come). It is a middle area for the soul to be cleansed. Once it is finished in this area (it may get a extra month if needed) then it moves on.
Ummm. You're quoting Jeremiah 33:14 and not Isaiah 33:14.
Oops...My bad...Got my Yahus mixed up...
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