Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I was raised Jewish growing up. I met my basheret at the end of University and we got engaged. I was shomer shabbat, Kosher, and observed the mitzvot.
My mother had a conversion because her grandmother was not Jewish before she married my father, even though she was raised Jewish.
With this in mind, I approached the Rabbinical Council about my situation without any doubt in my mind that I was Jewish.
Unfortunately, they found my evidence to be insignificant and I underwent a 2-year conversion under the auspices of a respected Rabbinical body. While it was not challenging for me to undergo the process, it took an emotional toll. I found the constant questioning of my identity and being treated like an outsider to be very hurtful.
Eventually my fiancee was brought into the process and she had to demonstrate her commitment to Judaism even though she was raised in a more strictly observant home than myself. During the process, I started to lose faith in our religious leaders and what it meant to be a Jew. I felt as though my entire identity was only seen through saying specific brachot or the extent to which I observe the mitzvot.
I eventually became disillusioned with the process.
I felt especially hurt the day I was dipped in the Mikvah. I felt like an imposter and humiliated to have to prove my Judaism. This was about 5 years ago.
I always viewed Judaism as unique and better than all the other religions. Having been through a long, arduous, and frankly unfair process of becoming a halachic Jew again, I no longer believe that today.
After the wedding, I found it difficult to go to synagogue or to participate in Jewish events. Even though our religion is supposed to embrace converts, we all know they are not treated as equals.
While there were so many aspects of Judaism that I loved: intellectual rigor, commitment to a moral life, and strong community, I no longer found joy in participating in any Jewish ritual or event.
I have stopped keeping Shabbat and only maintain a kosher home and eat dairy out. I hope to find a way to enjoy Judaism and to restore trust in our institutions and overcome my insecurity.
If it was not for my situation, I could approach and Rabbi and seek help. But if I no longer am observant, am I even a Jew now? What is my marriage? I feel alone and lost.
I would really appreciate any thoughts or advice on this topic and how to cope with this.
You have not gone into great detail about the Rabbinical Council's concerns. AFAIK, even the fact that you had to take a dip is not proof that you are a convert, rather than born a Jew. Regardless, there is nothing wrong with being a convert. Do you yourself understand the Rabbinical Council's position? Not like you should explain it to me or discuss it in public, but if you actually understand the technical reasons for their position, you may not react so negatively. OTOH, you may disagree with them (which is a little tricky, because, while they are not infallible, they are far more likely to know the halachach). It wouldn't hurt to discuss this with a Chabad rabbi, who, while quite strict about halachah, is perhaps more likely to keep a view of the big picture.
If you were born Jewish, you're Jewish. If you had a kosher conversion, you're Jewish. Your present level of observance has no effect on your Jewishness either way. I know that that is true, but you might want to hear it from an orthodox rabbi.
What is your wife's position in all this? Again, not that you need to answer here, but it obviously counts.
Quote:
After the wedding, I found it difficult to go to synagogue or to participate in Jewish events. Even though our religion is supposed to embrace converts, we all know they are not treated as equals.
I know that that is not true in our congregation. I can certainly believe that it is true in some others, although I suspect that that attitude has declined somewhat in many places. You mention a Rabbinical Council. Does this mean that you are in an area with more than one orthodox congregation? Within walking distance?
Thanks for your reply. They could not confirm the rabbi's name on the prior conversion document and he had passed away. It was geirut l"chumrah, but still took 2 years.
If marriage was not in the picture the situatoin probably would have been expedited. These subjective reasons, in my opinion, led to my current lack of observance.
My wife feels as I do, mistreated by our institutions.
I am somewhat familiar with a case that took somewhere around the same time, and it may not even have been called a gerus l'chumrah - I do not know whether he had to take a dip, but I think not. His mother was Jewish but there were other issues. No marriage on the immediate horizon. He intended to be observant, and already was but didn't actually have a Jewish name. It took the beis din quite some time even to determine that he was Jewish, but they ultimately did. My point here is that the amount of time should not be taken as an insult. Different people have different skills in dealing with people, and even different motivations. My suggestion is to associate yourself with the people whose outlook facilitates your well-being and spiritual growth. I believe that this can include orthodox Jews.
Thanks for your reply. They could not confirm the rabbi's name on the prior conversion document and he had passed away. It was geirut l"chumrah, but still took 2 years.
If marriage was not in the picture the situatoin probably would have been expedited. These subjective reasons, in my opinion, led to my current lack of observance.
My wife feels as I do, mistreated by our institutions.
It sounds like you are listing reasons (making excuses?) for your lack of observance. The mitzvot and following halachah are how a Jew connects to Hashem. The mitzvot are also a path of self improvement, self refinement. It sounds like you are saying you dont want or need either of those in your life. That is what you are rejecting and turning your back on.
Why would your connection to Hashem have anything to do with what this or that rabbi says or does? Your emunah and bitachon your faith and trust in Hashem have nothing to do with other people including this or that rabbi.
I went through something similar when i was putting in my application to make aliyah. No rabbi would write a formal letter for me stating I am Jewish because they didn't know my family. Yes I was upset with the rabbis and the process and for abot 5 minutes I considered throwing it all away and turning my back on all of it. Then I realized that was the yetzer hara. As a Jew we draw close to G*d through following halachah. Period. Anything other than comes between us and Hashem.
I still don't have my letter and plans for aliyah are on hold. But none of that has anything to do with my level of observance. It sounds like your pride and ego are what you give precedence to instead of your bitachon and emunah and your service to Hashem.
Where is Hashem in all this? That's what being observant is about.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 04-01-2017 at 10:00 PM..
Everyone's level of observance is only dependent on oneself - no institution could keep me from observing if I wanted. Stop making excuses and get to a local minyan. Maybe even open a Gamara. But don't blame being off the derech on anyone other than yourself. You can fix this tomorrow morning at 8am with Shacharis. And then this crappy off-course section of your life will be behind you. Nothing like a little Torah Observance to make you feel connected with the Robono shel Olam.
It sounds like you are listing reasons (making excuses?) for your lack of observance. The mitzvot and following halachah are how a Jew connects to Hashem. The mitzvot are also a path of self improvement, self refinement. It sounds like you are saying you dont want or need either of those in your life. That is what you are rejecting and turning your back on.
Why would your connection to Hashem have anything to do with what this or that rabbi says or does? Your emunah and bitachon your faith and trust in Hashem have nothing to do with other people including this or that rabbi.
I went through something similar when i was putting in my application to make aliyah. No rabbi would write a formal letter for me stating I am Jewish because they didn't know my family. Yes I was upset with the rabbis and the process and for abot 5 minutes I considered throwing it all away and turning my back on all of it. Then I realized that was the yetzer hara. As a Jew we draw close to G*d through following halachah. Period. Anything other than comes between us and Hashem.
I still don't have my letter and plans for aliyah are on hold. But none of that has anything to do with my level of observance. It sounds like your pride and ego are what you give precedence to instead of your bitachon and emunah and your service to Hashem.
Where is Hashem in all this? That's what being observant is about.
Everyone's level of observance is only dependent on oneself - no institution could keep me from observing if I wanted. Stop making excuses and get to a local minyan. Maybe even open a Gamara. But don't blame being off the derech on anyone other than yourself. You can fix this tomorrow morning at 8am with Shacharis. And then this crappy off-course section of your life will be behind you. Nothing like a little Torah Observance to make you feel connected with the Robono shel Olam.
It sounds like you are listing reasons (making excuses?) for your lack of observance. The mitzvot and following halachah are how a Jew connects to Hashem. The mitzvot are also a path of self improvement, self refinement. It sounds like you are saying you dont want or need either of those in your life. That is what you are rejecting and turning your back on.
I still don't have my letter and plans for aliyah are on hold. But none of that has anything to do with my level of observance. It sounds like your pride and ego are what you give precedence to instead of your bitachon and emunah and your service to Hashem.
Where is Hashem in all this? That's what being observant is about.
I have no shame in the decisions I've made in my made. You wrongfully assume I'm trying to make excuses for lack of observance. I am unsure if I want to return to a life of full observance.
Your remarks and blind assumptions are what continues to alienate your brethren. This "checking off the list" mentality is what drove me away. 24 years of belief and observance means nothing. I don't care to make excuses, the leadership of the American orthodox community (the ashkenazi one predominately) has failed in many aspects of the conversion process.
The happiest times of my life were while I was davening 3 times a day and learning every Shabbat. I hold our institutions accountable and continue to, my relationship with Hashem Is between myself and Him.
I regret that you didn't take this opportunity to have a constructive conversation but to just direct me to "do more."
Everyone's level of observance is only dependent on oneself - no institution could keep me from observing if I wanted. Stop making excuses and get to a local minyan. Maybe even open a Gamara. But don't blame being off the derech on anyone other than yourself. You can fix this tomorrow morning at 8am with Shacharis. And then this crappy off-course section of your life will be behind you. Nothing like a little Torah Observance to make you feel connected with the Robono shel Olam.
Let's just repress our feelings and pray Schacharit and everything will be oK! Good for you that you don't feel held back by institutions, i think you deserve a Super Star of David!
Is a good Jew that judgmental towards others? Think about that in the future.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
