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Old 04-22-2018, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,878 posts, read 4,985,692 times
Reputation: 1514

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AniHaGever View Post
[/b]

Don't listen to him and his dumb comment non jews are always welcomed to attend synagogue and even pray along so long as they are not a security threat
I don't know, what I do know extremely well are many pre-conceived ideas I had, and MOST ALL Gentiles have about Jews that were all wrong, I can't see just any Gentile attending a synagogue with sincere reasons as to be like a Helper doing things Jews can't. I really enjoyed myself in going, and they treated me like a king after they found out who I was, but I can easily picture reasons why a Jew would have a raised eyebrow to a Gentile, ESPECIALLY a Gentile who just doesn't believe in Judaism. I believe in Judaism, but I don't fit with synagogues, but I would really like to. I am crazy enough as it is, I mean, I always say too much, TOO MUCH and I would really have to be guarded if that is possible for my tongue to do, the watches of that devil should be biting my tongue.
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Old 04-22-2018, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,878 posts, read 4,985,692 times
Reputation: 1514
Quote:
Originally Posted by AniHaGever View Post
You make me laugh sometimes with your comments

What of בית תפילתי יקרא לכל עמים you do not understand

Moreover itís conpletey שרי(permissible) for a non jew to enter a synagogue absolutely so long as they are harming the congregants or trying to convert Jews to another religion
What would the Christian do?


Somehow, you know somebody who knows somebody and somehow a Gentile shows up at a synagogue, and it just happens to be a Christian Gentile, and so right from jump street, 99.9 percent are going to say something to themselves,'' God has put me around Jews and has now given me a great ministry to reach out to Jews.''


They are going to tell all their friends and begin a mission doomed from the beginning, and when they can't figure out why the Jew will not listen, they turn into Martin Luthers.


How dare you not believe them?


Gentiles are so screwed up in their head about what they think of Jews, it is sad.
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Old 04-22-2018, 10:47 PM
 
846 posts, read 1,060,306 times
Reputation: 1763
I'm bowing out...I really didn't intend for this to happen, and I apologize for starting it. I suppose I got my answer, and I certainly wouldn't want to start this kind of a conflict at the synagogue. Thank you all for your assistance and guidance.
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Old 04-23-2018, 09:58 AM
 
400 posts, read 123,847 times
Reputation: 523
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbex View Post
I'm bowing out...I really didn't intend for this to happen, and I apologize for starting it. I suppose I got my answer, and I certainly wouldn't want to start this kind of a conflict at the synagogue. Thank you all for your assistance and guidance.
No apology needed. You asked an honest question, gave what info you could, and got all kinds of answers. Some of the answers, including contradictory ones, were correct for their time and place. Probably one or two were wrong, one or two were irrelevant, at least one had a critical typographical error, and at least one was kind of stupid. Most or all of the ones that were not exactly relevant and correct were made in good faith by valued members of the forum, and there is no need to dwell further on them.

NONE of this is your fault. It is characteristic specifically of this forum, and, to some extent, of Jews in general.

See your local orthodox rabbi, and learn as much more as you choose to.
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Old 04-23-2018, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Mars City
5,091 posts, read 2,150,950 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
I can't see just any Gentile attending a synagogue with sincere reasons
That's too bad you feel that way, because there are definitely such Gentile's out there. I'm having trouble understand the stone wall and rigidity in the thinking. Oh well, I'm sure you'll get your wish, and Gentile's will stay far away. Just keep in mind that you're giving them/us reasons to think of Jews in a harsh and negative light. If there's no element of kindness and acceptance on your part, Gentiles will have no reason to support Jews in any way. It might even encourage - probably already does - people to look down on Jews. I hope that you're just representing a wayward and tangental element, and not the norm of Judaic thought and action.
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Old 04-23-2018, 11:43 AM
 
13,093 posts, read 13,700,372 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
That's too bad you feel that way, because there are definitely such Gentile's out there. I'm having trouble understand the stone wall and rigidity in the thinking. Oh well, I'm sure you'll get your wish, and Gentile's will stay far away. Just keep in mind that you're giving them/us reasons to think of Jews in a harsh and negative light. If there's no element of kindness and acceptance on your part, Gentiles will have no reason to support Jews in any way. It might even encourage - probably already does - people to look down on Jews. I hope that you're just representing a wayward and tangental element, and not the norm of Judaic thought and action.
so if there is a family reunion and you are not a member of the family so therefore your presence is questioned, then you look down on the family and see the family in a harsh and negative light?
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Old 04-23-2018, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Mars City
5,091 posts, read 2,150,950 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
so if there is a family reunion and you are not a member of the family so therefore your presence is questioned, then you look down on the family and see the family in a harsh and negative light?
In your example, why would we object to a non-family member being present? We're all part of the human race; all part of the human family. My family would love and welcome any guests. There would be no reason for their "presence to be questioned". That's the odd and confusing part in trying to understand this.

And we wouldn't assume or judge anything about a person; that they're there for trouble or disturbance. Shouldn't people be a blank slate, and we only fill in the slate once we have data and real feedback? There seems to be a knee-jerk approach to assumption of others (who they are, what they are about, their motivations) and dealing with people that I'm trying to understand.

Do Jews consider themselves above humanity, and/or on a different plane from the rest of the human race? I'm really curious. That's the only thing I'm picking up here. I'd really like to understand it better, not that I'm trying to change anything. It also seems like an "emperor's clothes" matter too; something not to look at.

Last edited by Thoreau424; 04-23-2018 at 01:51 PM..
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Old 04-23-2018, 01:49 PM
 
646 posts, read 346,335 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
In your example, why would we object to a non-family member being present? We're all part of the human race; all part of the human family. My family would love and welcome any guests. There would be no reason for their "presence to be questioned". That's the odd and confusing part in trying to understand this.

Do Jews consider themselves above humanity, and/or on a different plane from the rest of the human race? I'm really curious. That's the only thing I'm picking up here. I'd really like to understand it better, not that I'm trying to change anything. It also seems like an "emperor's clothes" matter too; something not to look at.
It really varies. Some are open to visitors and others are more careful. This does not necessarily coincide with how observant a person is, either.
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Old 04-23-2018, 02:18 PM
 
Location: NJ
1,392 posts, read 497,990 times
Reputation: 596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
In your example, why would we object to a non-family member being present? We're all part of the human race; all part of the human family. My family would love and welcome any guests. There would be no reason for their "presence to be questioned". That's the odd and confusing part in trying to understand this.
That's a fair question but I think, a bit naive. There are all sorts of events and situations which are "members only." I can't go into any situation simply because I am of the human race. It might be nice to think that I could, but sometimes, you have to buy a ticket to be let into the show, and the tickets are sold to family and friends, not random passers-by. [Note -- this is not to condemn or condone anyone's attending a synagogue, just to address the idea that we are all welcome everywhere]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
And we wouldn't assume or judge anything about a person; that they're there for trouble or disturbance. Shouldn't people be a blank slate, and we only fill in the slate once we have data and real feedback? There seems to be a knee-jerk approach to assumption of others (who they are, what they are about, their motivations) and dealing with people that I'm trying to understand.
Sadly, history has not always been kind to Jews. Therefore, a serious vetting process is often viewed to be a necessary precursor to letting outsiders in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
Do Jews consider themselves above humanity, and/or on a different plane from the rest of the human race? I'm really curious. That's the only thing I'm picking up here. I'd really like to understand it better, not that I'm trying to change anything. It also seems like an "emperor's clothes" matter too; something not to look at.
I don't know how or why you would pick up on that idea. Jews are human and view others as human. But that doesn't mean that Jews throw the doors open and say "come on in" -- prayer is a serious event that requires the participation of Jews. Why would others want to watch? It isn't a spectator sport.

That being said, I have sat next to non-Jews who were attending services at the synagogue which I attend and it was a fabulous learning experience. But if that became the norm, I would start feeling like a tourguide, not able to focus on my own prayer.

Just some random thoughts.
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Old 04-23-2018, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Mars City
5,091 posts, read 2,150,950 times
Reputation: 7505
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
...that doesn't mean that Jews throw the doors open and say "come on in" -- prayer is a serious event that requires the participation of Jews. Why would others want to watch? It isn't a spectator sport.
I'm not suggesting extremism, and I don't understand that sentiment either. I never suggested throwing "the doors open and saying 'come on in'. There could be middle ground between one extreme (rejecting people outright), and the opposite (some weird welcoming extravaganza).

I understand that it is serious, and I respect that. Why is is impossible to see the chance of a visitor also seeing it as serious and sacred? I still don't get this leaping to conclusions, as though you know and fully understand - beyond a shadow of doubt - every person that you see.

Also, this notion that people - anyone - would see it as a "spectator sport". Why would anyone think that? Why is it impossible to conceive of a visitor respecting and sharing in the holiness of the time, understanding the rich and extensive history behind Judaism? It sounds like you consider it impossible for a visitor to be reverent and respectful. It doesn't mean the visitor would understand it all, or any of it, but the visitor can see that it is highly significant and deep to those present.

I've only been trying to gain understanding, learning, and education in this area. I've come in peace, and as a friend. But there is a coldness and a bit of hostility that seems misplaced and unwarranted. Unfortunately, my opinion of Jews has been reduced, which is sad. I've always been VERY supportive of Jews, when anyone has said anything negative, though I'll admit to not knowing much about Jews, their faith, and their beliefs. Now, I feel slighted and have no reason to say anything positive or supportive. Even asking questions here - at a distance with no strings attached - is met with gruffness.

I'm going to stop commenting and posting here in this area of the forum. Don't worry about me intruding any more into your area. Peace.

Last edited by Thoreau424; 04-23-2018 at 03:01 PM..
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