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Old 04-19-2018, 07:58 AM
 
3,964 posts, read 3,348,129 times
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In an orthodox synagogue, itís the minyan that fuels the shul. Itís the core of what belonging to an orthodox shul entails. In kollel, itís Talmud Torah (learning and teaching Torah).

What fuels the reform/conservative shul? Whatís the core that defines it? According to the Pew report, itís humor. From my oberservations, which are admittedly distant, itís secular social justice. But Iím no authority on maters reform. What do you all think?
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Old 04-20-2018, 07:39 AM
 
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Is there not a fuel for the non Torah Observant shul? I know people go - at least on Friday nights. What motivates them? Love for G-d? A feeling of connection to their fellow Jew? The oneg afterwards?
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Old 04-20-2018, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Virginia
3,987 posts, read 2,047,265 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
Is there not a fuel for the non Torah Observant shul? I know people go - at least on Friday nights. What motivates them? Love for G-d? A feeling of connection to their fellow Jew? The oneg afterwards?
Well, I thought about not replying, but I simply could not refrain. The very fact that you would suggest that Conservative or Reform Jews would go to shul merely for "the oneg afterwards" shows the disdain with which you regard any Jew who isn't Orthodox. Sorry to disabuse your beliefs, but we love G-d just as much as you do.
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Old 04-20-2018, 02:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungalove View Post
Well, I thought about not replying, but I simply could not refrain. The very fact that you would suggest that Conservative or Reform Jews would go to shul merely for "the oneg afterwards" shows the disdain with which you regard any Jew who isn't Orthodox. Sorry to disabuse your beliefs, but we love G-d just as much as you do.
Wait, but I offered "love for G-d" as a possibility. I don't understand your defensive posture. If that's your answer, just say so.

I assure you you'll find Torah-observant Jews who only go for the kiddush or oneg afterwards. But the driving force that keeps the doors open in an Orthodox shul is the 22 minyans a week held within it's walls. Reform rarely has more than 2 or 3 minyans a week, and Conservative may have more, but likely the percentage of attendees on a daily basis is very small.

I'm just trying to understand, if you don't come for the minyan, why do you come?
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Old 04-20-2018, 02:46 PM
 
400 posts, read 124,087 times
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Originally Posted by Bungalove View Post
Well, I thought about not replying, but I simply could not refrain. The very fact that you would suggest that Conservative or Reform Jews would go to shul merely for "the oneg afterwards" shows the disdain with which you regard any Jew who isn't Orthodox. Sorry to disabuse your beliefs, but we love G-d just as much as you do.
I disagree. I feel that TFF is asking an honest question. From some points of view, it may have flaws, but your reply is no better. Do you love G-d? You sound (to me) like a Christian asking "Do you love Jesus?" You're an expert on other people's (or your own) motivations?

I wasn't going to respond, either, but if you can, I can. Pew report???????? If you want some real entertainment, far better than most of the threads here, find out what they asked and what their assumptions and definitions were. You'll never take them seriously again.

Secular socialist justice? I recommend that you read Paul Fussell on the description of justice. He makes an excellent but short implication (or I make an excellent but unsupported inference) that most or all adjectives applied to the word "justice" are either superfluously redundant or oxymoronic. "Socialist," which is what communist bridgebuilders mean by "social," is of the latter.
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Old 04-20-2018, 03:02 PM
 
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I find Bungalove's response above so troubling, but not surprising. So frequently in this forum and elsewhere, Conservative Jews in particular immediately get defensive when "confronted" with Torah Observance. They immediately assume Jews who are actually Torah Observant have disdain for their lack thereof.

Some of that may be true, but inside the body of every frei Yid is a frum Yid just waiting to climb out and reach for the Torah and Hashem. A yid is a yid, no matter the level of observance. We are meant to love our fellow yidden. Do I wish all jews were observant? of course. But we are not holding on that level today. May moschiach come speedily.
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Old 04-21-2018, 05:52 PM
 
Location: Virginia
3,987 posts, read 2,047,265 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
I find Bungalove's response above so troubling, but not surprising. So frequently in this forum and elsewhere, Conservative Jews in particular immediately get defensive when "confronted" with Torah Observance. They immediately assume Jews who are actually Torah Observant have disdain for their lack thereof.

Some of that may be true, but inside the body of every frei Yid is a frum Yid just waiting to climb out and reach for the Torah and Hashem. A yid is a yid, no matter the level of observance. We are meant to love our fellow yidden. Do I wish all jews were observant? of course. But we are not holding on that level today. May moschiach come speedily.
I never assume that Jews who are Torah observant have disdain for Conservative or Reform Jews, in general. However, previous posts that you have made in this forum have led me to conclude that you, personally, have disdain for them. If that is not true, then I stand corrected. That is not my impression, however. Perhaps as a convert, though a longstanding one, I am particularly sensitive to the issue.
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