U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Judaism
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-07-2018, 09:35 PM
 
3,964 posts, read 3,346,864 times
Reputation: 1246

Advertisements

Occasionally there are Jewish men who disrupt flights demanding to be re-sat when they are sat next to a woman. They’re concerned they may transgress possibly a mitzvah d’oraisa, so they tend to be pretty motivated when they do so.

My Rav poskins that it mamish transgresses a mitzvah d’oraisa (from the Torah) to make a scene with such demands. The chilul hashem overweighs any concern of possibly having an arm, leg or foot touch a stranger woman.

Should a G-d fearing Jew find himself in this situation, he should bury his nose in a sefer and ask hashem why he merited to be placed in this situation.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-08-2018, 09:53 AM
 
32,108 posts, read 33,017,270 times
Reputation: 14957
IMHO, these extremists should charter their own private plane/s where they can make the rules that suit the traditions they feel comfortable with.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2018, 12:08 PM
 
400 posts, read 123,847 times
Reputation: 523
We should find an answer to this problem! It seems to keep happening, every five to eight years or so.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2018, 02:23 PM
 
13,093 posts, read 13,698,619 times
Reputation: 9157
Quote:
Originally Posted by ben Shunamit View Post
We should find an answer to this problem! It seems to keep happening, every five to eight years or so.
it looks like on El Al airlines, those who decline assigned seats may be asked to leave plane. The CEO Gonen Ussishkin states, “From here on, travelers who refuse to sit next to another traveler will be removed expeditiously from the aircraft.”

https://www.vosizneias.com/300424/20...off-the-plane/
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2018, 02:58 PM
 
13,093 posts, read 13,698,619 times
Reputation: 9157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chava61 View Post
IMHO, these extremists should charter their own private plane/s where they can make the rules that suit the traditions they feel comfortable with.
"extremists" ?? really?
that is rather strong language for a customer asking for a change in seating. airlines are in the customer service business, and this is something they do, they ask for volunteers to change seats to accommodate requests for a variety of reasons.

do you call the business man who asks not to sit next to the woman traveling with a baby an "extremist" because he wants a different seat?

do you call the wife an "extremist" who asks for someone to trade seats so she can sit next to her husband?

do you call the teenager an "extremist" who asks for someone to trade seats so she can sit next to her friend?

do you call the lady an "extremist" who asks for a different seat because she doesn't want to sit next to someone who is fat?

do you call the man an "extremist" who asks for a different seat because he has long legs and wants more leg room?

do you call the little girl an "extremist" because she wants a window seat to see outside?

all of those are real life examples that have happened to me on planes. and I don't even fly very often.



watch your language. because unless you call all those examples listed above "extremists" then your language is out of line. do you similarly advise all the examples listed above to "charter planes for travel where they can make the rules so they will feel comfortable"?

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 07-08-2018 at 03:56 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2018, 09:07 PM
 
Location: US
27,992 posts, read 15,074,605 times
Reputation: 1753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
"extremists" ?? really?
that is rather strong language for a customer asking for a change in seating. airlines are in the customer service business, and this is something they do, they ask for volunteers to change seats to accommodate requests for a variety of reasons.

do you call the business man who asks not to sit next to the woman traveling with a baby an "extremist" because he wants a different seat?

do you call the wife an "extremist" who asks for someone to trade seats so she can sit next to her husband?

do you call the teenager an "extremist" who asks for someone to trade seats so she can sit next to her friend?

do you call the lady an "extremist" who asks for a different seat because she doesn't want to sit next to someone who is fat?

do you call the man an "extremist" who asks for a different seat because he has long legs and wants more leg room?

do you call the little girl an "extremist" because she wants a window seat to see outside?

all of those are real life examples that have happened to me on planes. and I don't even fly very often.



watch your language. because unless you call all those examples listed above "extremists" then your language is out of line. do you similarly advise all the examples listed above to "charter planes for travel where they can make the rules so they will feel comfortable"?
I’m confused, which one were you, the business man, the wife, the teenager, the fat person, the long legged man or the little girl?...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2018, 05:26 AM
 
3,964 posts, read 3,346,864 times
Reputation: 1246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
"extremists" ?? really?
that is rather strong language for a customer asking for a change in seating. airlines are in the customer service business, and this is something they do, they ask for volunteers to change seats to accommodate requests for a variety of reasons.

do you call the business man who asks not to sit next to the woman traveling with a baby an "extremist" because he wants a different seat?

do you call the wife an "extremist" who asks for someone to trade seats so she can sit next to her husband?

do you call the teenager an "extremist" who asks for someone to trade seats so she can sit next to her friend?

do you call the lady an "extremist" who asks for a different seat because she doesn't want to sit next to someone who is fat?

do you call the man an "extremist" who asks for a different seat because he has long legs and wants more leg room?

do you call the little girl an "extremist" because she wants a window seat to see outside?

all of those are real life examples that have happened to me on planes. and I don't even fly very often.



watch your language. because unless you call all those examples listed above "extremists" then your language is out of line. do you similarly advise all the examples listed above to "charter planes for travel where they can make the rules so they will feel comfortable"?
Bravo, well said. I started this thread to show my Rav, who is as “shtark” as they come, poskins it’s not permissible to make drama when asking to be re-sat. It’s worse, however, to call G-d fearing Jews an extremist. That’s mamish chilul hashem.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2018, 11:54 AM
 
32,108 posts, read 33,017,270 times
Reputation: 14957
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
"extremists" ?? really?
that is rather strong language for a customer asking for a change in seating. airlines are in the customer service business, and this is something they do, they ask for volunteers to change seats to accommodate requests for a variety of reasons.

do you call the business man who asks not to sit next to the woman traveling with a baby an "extremist" because he wants a different seat?


watch your language. because unless you call all those examples listed above "extremists" then your language is out of line. do you similarly advise all the examples listed above to "charter planes for travel where they can make the rules so they will feel comfortable"?
I didn't write anything inappropriate. Also I personally don't ask to change seats on planes just because someone has a baby (even though it might be disruptive to me) as I understand that I am sharing a plane ride with others and I need to accommodate them. If someone asks to change seats for other reasons, I can do so or decline according to the situation. But nobody can demand a seat change if the person already seated there refuses unless the airline crew request it for safety reasons, etc.

The Ultra Orthodox Jews share buses and trains and other forms of public transportation and have to travel with others just like on a shared plane ride.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2018, 01:17 PM
 
400 posts, read 123,847 times
Reputation: 523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chava61 View Post
The Ultra Orthodox Jews share buses and trains and other forms of public transportation and have to travel with others just like on a shared plane ride.
Ever traveled from Williamsburg to Boro Park or vice versa?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2018, 11:09 PM
 
3,964 posts, read 3,346,864 times
Reputation: 1246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chava61 View Post

The Ultra Orthodox Jews share buses and trains and other forms of public transportation and have to travel with others just like on a shared plane ride.
Chava, the term “Ultra Orthodox “ is considered to be pejorative. You might not have known that.

Better to use one of these terms instead: Shomer Shabbos, G-d Fearing. Torah Observant. Etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Judaism
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top