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Old 10-11-2018, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Chicagoland area
277 posts, read 98,565 times
Reputation: 113

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
But Ashkenazi is a type of Jew so if, under Jewish law, and in light of the posted topic of this thread, the speaker is not Jewish, he cannot be Ashkenazi. Even more strictly speaking, Ashkenazi means not just genetics, but subscribing to a particular set of ritual practices as opposed to the Sepahrdi versions. If one doesn't follow any of the practices as a matter of geography and belief then he isn't Ashkenazi.
I disagree. There is a lot of opinions about the origins of the Ashkenazi Jew. Just as there is some disagreement of the origin on the Irish Celts. You can be an Irish Protestant and still be Irish just as you can be Ashkenazi without being Jewish.
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Old 10-11-2018, 08:21 AM
 
Location: NJ
1,390 posts, read 495,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
I disagree. There is a lot of opinions about the origins of the Ashkenazi Jew. Just as there is some disagreement of the origin on the Irish Celts. You can be an Irish Protestant and still be Irish just as you can be Ashkenazi without being Jewish.
How can you disagree? It is a designation created from within Judaism and about Jews. You can develop all sorts of theories about how things happen, but i can't insist I'm the pope. Ashkenaz is a Hebrew name for a particular place which labels those people who subscribe to the traditions which stem from there. It isn't a designation that has any value outside of Judaism.
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Old 10-11-2018, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Chicagoland area
277 posts, read 98,565 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
How can you disagree? It is a designation created from within Judaism and about Jews. You can develop all sorts of theories about how things happen, but i can't insist I'm the pope. Ashkenaz is a Hebrew name for a particular place which labels those people who subscribe to the traditions which stem from there. It isn't a designation that has any value outside of Judaism.
I'm not taking about Ashkenazi traditions I'm tAlking about DNA i might actually be blood relative to Jews in Israel. I may also be blood to the Patriarch Jacob. Ashkenazi is another word for Germany.
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Old 10-11-2018, 08:45 AM
 
Location: NJ
1,390 posts, read 495,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
I'm not taking about Ashkenazi traditions I'm tAlking about DNA i might actually be blood relative to Jews in Israel. I may also be blood to the Patriarch Jacob. Ashkenazi is another word for Germany.
But "Ashkenazi" is not about blood or DNA. It is about particular practices and liturgical choices. If you want to say "German" or "eastern European" then say that. Do you often use random Hebrew words to label yourself?
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Old 10-11-2018, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Chicagoland area
277 posts, read 98,565 times
Reputation: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
But "Ashkenazi" is not about blood or DNA. It is about particular practices and liturgical choices. If you want to say "German" or "eastern European" then say that. Do you often use random Hebrew words to label yourself?
I spent a lot of time thinking about this yesterday. I am going to identify my ethnicity and nationality as only American. And Claim my religion as a Catholic.
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Old 10-11-2018, 09:40 AM
 
Location: US
27,963 posts, read 15,050,737 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
But Ashkenazi is a type of Jew so if, under Jewish law, and in light of the posted topic of this thread, the speaker is not Jewish, he cannot be Ashkenazi. Even more strictly speaking, Ashkenazi means not just genetics, but subscribing to a particular set of ritual practices as opposed to the Sepahrdi versions. If one doesn't follow any of the practices as a matter of geography and belief then he isn't Ashkenazi.
But genetics can show if his ancestry has any European Jewish markers, regardless if he is an Ashkenazi now...
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,803 posts, read 4,968,434 times
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When would one stop being a Jew by blood? A Jewish mother has a daughter by a Gentile husband and they have a daughter who has a child by a Gentile, and..

Just because somebody has traces of Jewish blood, it makes them part Jewish but are they still Jews.
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Old 10-11-2018, 12:49 PM
 
Location: NJ
1,390 posts, read 495,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
But genetics can show if his ancestry has any European Jewish markers, regardless if he is an Ashkenazi now...
They can show markers that I have native American ancestry, but I'm not an Native American, so I won't call myself a Navajo.
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Old 10-11-2018, 12:50 PM
 
Location: NJ
1,390 posts, read 495,346 times
Reputation: 596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
When would one stop being a Jew by blood? A Jewish mother has a daughter by a Gentile husband and they have a daughter who has a child by a Gentile, and..

Just because somebody has traces of Jewish blood, it makes them part Jewish but are they still Jews.
As long as someone has a Jewish mother, that person (by Jewish law as codified in a variety of texts) is Jewish, 100%.
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Old 10-11-2018, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,803 posts, read 4,968,434 times
Reputation: 1502
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
As long as someone has a Jewish mother, that person (by Jewish law as codified in a variety of texts) is Jewish, 100%.
So a Jewish woman could marry a Gentile and convert to a Gentile religion and have a daughter, and as long as that daughter has another daughter for a thousand years, the daughter is still Jewish and her daughter as well, that is interesting.
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