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Old 10-11-2018, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland area
277 posts, read 98,928 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
As long as someone has a Jewish mother, that person (by Jewish law as codified in a variety of texts) is Jewish, 100%.
My two best friends my junior year of high school were both Jewish.

One has a Jewish father and a Catholic mother and was raised in the synagogue. The other, had a Jewish mother but was raised in the church.

There a 300,000-400,000 jews in the Chicagoland area. There are 3-3.5 million in the NYC metropolitan area. I grew up knowing many Jews and my father always told me I am Jewish. But as of recently, I've decided to stop identifying as such.
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Old 10-11-2018, 01:15 PM
 
Location: NJ
1,392 posts, read 497,222 times
Reputation: 596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
So a Jewish woman could marry a Gentile and convert to a Gentile religion and have a daughter, and as long as that daughter has another daughter for a thousand years, the daughter is still Jewish and her daughter as well, that is interesting.
Yes, under Jewish law, the child is Jewish, and if a girl, her children are Jewish etc.
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Old 10-11-2018, 01:29 PM
 
Location: North by Northwest
7,442 posts, read 9,886,745 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
But "Ashkenazi" is not about blood or DNA. It is about particular practices and liturgical choices. If you want to say "German" or "eastern European" then say that. Do you often use random Hebrew words to label yourself?
When you descend from an endogamous group with a founding population of 350, there’s absolutely a blood and DNA component. People can be of Ashkenazi Jewish descent regardless of Halacha. Saying “German” or “Eastern European” instead is (1) silly and pedantic and (2) overly broad, as non-Ashkenazi families occasionally ended up in Ashkenazi lands.
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Old 10-11-2018, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,844 posts, read 4,979,806 times
Reputation: 1512
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
Yes, under Jewish law, the child is Jewish, and if a girl, her children are Jewish etc.
That is awesome, all my dozens of cousins have been trying to prove that we are a quarter Indian and less than that makes you non Indian, but even if I could prove it, I wouldn't. We had family reunions in Ark and just the way we were treated gave me a bad outlook on wanting to be validated. But then my daughter had a blood test with zero Indian blood that gives me doubts about seeing myself as Indian all my life. She is like all Scottish, Irish and Scandinavian without a hint of Indian blood, and I feel like I have been lied to, but if you saw a picture of my grandmother, she looks 100 percent Indian, and I do have records of my great great mother being Indian, but how could my daughter have no Indian blood?
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Old 10-11-2018, 02:00 PM
 
Location: NJ
1,392 posts, read 497,222 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElijahAstin View Post
When you descend from an endogamous group with a founding population of 350, there’s absolutely a blood and DNA component. People can be of Ashkenazi Jewish descent regardless of Halacha. Saying “German” or “Eastern European” instead is (1) silly and pedantic and (2) overly broad, as non-Ashkenazi families occasionally ended up in Ashkenazi lands.
There is no blood or DNA component in being Ashkenazi. Someone can be from Yemen and be Ashkenazi. Someone can be from Germany and be Sephardi. A non-Jew can have ancestors who were Ashkenazim but thatdoesn't make him Ashkenazi. Saying someone who is from Poland is Polish, or from Germany is German isn't pedantic. It is accurate. Saying someone who isn't Jewish is part of a subgroup that subscribes to certain practices and traditions is inaccurate. Being of Ashkenazi descent isn't generally a concern of halacha because except for the question of following halachic practices and norms, your descent isn't an issue.
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Old 10-11-2018, 02:02 PM
 
Location: NJ
1,392 posts, read 497,222 times
Reputation: 596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
That is awesome, all my dozens of cousins have been trying to prove that we are a quarter Indian and less than that makes you non Indian, but even if I could prove it, I wouldn't. We had family reunions in Ark and just the way we were treated gave me a bad outlook on wanting to be validated. But then my daughter had a blood test with zero Indian blood that gives me doubts about seeing myself as Indian all my life. She is like all Scottish, Irish and Scandinavian without a hint of Indian blood, and I feel like I have been lied to, but if you saw a picture of my grandmother, she looks 100 percent Indian, and I do have records of my great great mother being Indian, but how could my daughter have no Indian blood?
It isn't an issue of blood. If one of those children of a Jewish great great great great grandmother was a boy, and he married a non-Jew, his kid would be not Jewish. But if that kid would have "Jewish blood" through him. And if two people convert under Jewish law and get married and have children who are 100% Jewish then the children have no Jewish blood but are 100% Jewish.

I also don't say that any of this can be applied to any other ethnicity or lineage. It is a function of Jewish law. The Scots might have their own standards.
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Old 10-11-2018, 02:14 PM
 
Location: North by Northwest
7,442 posts, read 9,886,745 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
There is no blood or DNA component in being Ashkenazi. Someone can be from Yemen and be Ashkenazi. Someone can be from Germany and be Sephardi. A non-Jew can have ancestors who were Ashkenazim but thatdoesn't make him Ashkenazi. Saying someone who is from Poland is Polish, or from Germany is German isn't pedantic. It is accurate. Saying someone who isn't Jewish is part of a subgroup that subscribes to certain practices and traditions is inaccurate. Being of Ashkenazi descent isn't generally a concern of halacha because except for the question of following halachic practices and norms, your descent isn't an issue.
Any Jew can adopt Ashkenazi rites, but that does not change their genetic markers that correlate with the rites of their forebears. A German Ashkenazi Jew and a Ukrainian Ashkenazi Jew of Ashkenazi Jewish parentage come from the same shallow gene pool. Except for the occasional, fleeting bits of genetic admixture, there is nothing “German” or “Ukrainian” about them.

If only adopting Sephardic customs warded off Tay-Sachs!
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Old 10-11-2018, 03:06 PM
 
Location: NJ
1,392 posts, read 497,222 times
Reputation: 596
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElijahAstin View Post
Any Jew can adopt Ashkenazi rites, but that does not change their genetic markers that correlate with the rites of their forebears. A German Ashkenazi Jew and a Ukrainian Ashkenazi Jew of Ashkenazi Jewish parentage come from the same shallow gene pool. Except for the occasional, fleeting bits of genetic admixture, there is nothing “German” or “Ukrainian” about them.

If only adopting Sephardic customs warded off Tay-Sachs!
The correlation of T-S among a particular population comes from the limited breeding pool, not the religious practices. The French Canadians aren't Ashkenazi unless they are Jewish.
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Old 10-11-2018, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,844 posts, read 4,979,806 times
Reputation: 1512
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
It isn't an issue of blood. If one of those children of a Jewish great great great great grandmother was a boy, and he married a non-Jew, his kid would be not Jewish. But if that kid would have "Jewish blood" through him. And if two people convert under Jewish law and get married and have children who are 100% Jewish then the children have no Jewish blood but are 100% Jewish.

I also don't say that any of this can be applied to any other ethnicity or lineage. It is a function of Jewish law. The Scots might have their own standards.
Sounds cool to me, really cool, I think I like the way it is done.
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Old 10-11-2018, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland area
277 posts, read 98,928 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
Sounds cool to me, really cool, I think I like the way it is done.
To immigrate to Israel all you need is a Jewish grandparent. It doesn't matter what side there from at all. You have 350,000 people in Israel that call themselves Jewish, but the Chief Rabbis say there not Jewish. What the hell are they doing there?
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