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Old 10-11-2018, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
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I am a Gentile, but I have talked to a million Gentiles claiming to be Jewish with no Jewish relatives, and who are not converts to Judaism either, not by blood or religion but of course, they will assure you that they are the real Jew lol...I like the ones claiming to be Hebrew for some crazy reasons lol.
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Old 10-11-2018, 04:25 PM
 
Location: North by Northwest
7,442 posts, read 9,885,235 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
The correlation of T-S among a particular population comes from the limited breeding pool, not the religious practices. The French Canadians aren't Ashkenazi unless they are Jewish.
There’s obviously a distant common ancestor linking the two groups (which makes sense, given pre-Ashkenazi Jewish migration patterns), but other than that fleeting connection, there’s very little genetic overlap. French-Canadians were also far more open to intermixing. A substantial proportion of French-Canadians have Native American/First Nations ancestry for that reason.

Ashkenazi Jews and Old Order Amish also have some rare disorders in common, but they’re still fairly distant genetically.
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Old 10-29-2018, 07:10 PM
 
1,244 posts, read 710,328 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
That is awesome, all my dozens of cousins have been trying to prove that we are a quarter Indian and less than that makes you non Indian, but even if I could prove it, I wouldn't. We had family reunions in Ark and just the way we were treated gave me a bad outlook on wanting to be validated. But then my daughter had a blood test with zero Indian blood that gives me doubts about seeing myself as Indian all my life. She is like all Scottish, Irish and Scandinavian without a hint of Indian blood, and I feel like I have been lied to, but if you saw a picture of my grandmother, she looks 100 percent Indian, and I do have records of my great great mother being Indian, but how could my daughter have no Indian blood?

Because the half indian/white person passed on more european genes than natives, and so on. You don't pass on exactly half of each of your parents dna, anything is possible when people are mixed.

Jewish people do not exist as an ethnic group, they mostly share the same dna as the people in their countries of origin, be it Hungary or Yemen. Their skin is white in Europe, light brown in Arab countries, black in Africa, dark brown in India.

The Ashkenazi especially have little connection to the original Israelites despite their claims. They will say that Ethiopian Jews for example are converts, when the European Jews are often the ones who converted. Regardless, many people and groups of people converted to Judaism throughout history and in many nations, and the Gentile ancestors outnumber the Jewish ones for sure.

Jews are merely a group of people loosely united by sets of beliefs and ideas. They share very little dna with the original Hebrews, and if we were to take tests more non Jews would have the same or greater percentage of Hebrew dna than Jews.

My Moroccan Jew ancestors possibly give me a more legitimate claim to a Hebraic bloodline than many people here.

This whole "blood lineage" is a useful myth.

Last edited by Sorel36; 10-29-2018 at 07:30 PM..
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Old 10-29-2018, 07:29 PM
 
Location: US
27,985 posts, read 15,062,316 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorel36 View Post
Because the half indian/white person passed on more european genes than natives, and so on. You don't pass on exactly half of each of your parents dna, anything is possible when people are mixed.

Jewish people do not exist as an ethnic group, they mostly share the same dna as the people in their countries of origin, be it Hungary or Yemen. They are white in europe, light brown in arab countries, black in Africa, dark brown in India.

The Ashkenazi especially have little connection to the original Israelites despite their claims. They will say that Ethiopian Jews for example are converts, when the European Jews are often the ones who converted. Regardless, many people and groups of people converted to Judaism throughout history and in many nations, and the Gentile ancestors outnumber the Jewish ones for sure.

Jews are merely a group of people loosely united by sets of beliefs and ideas. They do not share dna with the original Hebrews or very little, and if we were to take tests more non Jews would have the same or greater percentage of Hebrew dna than Jews.

My Moroccan Jew ancestors possibly give me a more legitimate claim to a Hebraic bloodline than many people here.

This whole "blood lineage" is a useful myth.
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Old 11-05-2018, 01:23 PM
 
178 posts, read 179,171 times
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" If you wish to become Jewish, OP, you can convert to Judaism, as mentioned.

Also, I believe the Reform tradition here in America acknowledges patrilineal Judaism, but if you were ever to make aliyah to Israel, you would have to convert properly (this was the case for many Russian Jews who followed patrilineal bloodline and had to convert again in Israel).

So if you want to be considered Jewish, your best option is to study and convert to Judaism".


READ THIS.................

The Law of Return, 5730-1970: 2nd Amendment

1. In the Law of Return, 5710-1950, the following sections shall be inserted after section 4:
"Rights of members of family:
4A.
a. The rights of a Jew under this Law and the rights of an Oleh under the Nationality Law, 5710 - 1950, as well as the rights of an Oleh under any other enactment, are also vested in a child and grandchild of a Jew, the spouse of a Jew, the spouse of a child of a Jew and the spouse of a grandchild of a Jew, except for a person who has been a Jew and has voluntarily changed his religion.
b. It shall be immaterial whether or not a Jew by whose right a right under subsection (a) is claimed is still alive and whether or not he has immigrated to Israel.
c. The restrictions and conditions prescribed in respect of a Jew or an Oleh by or under this Law or by the enactments referred to in subsection (a) shall also apply to a person who claims a right under subsection (a).
Definition:
4B. For the purposes of this Law, "Jew" means a person who was born of a Jewish mother or has become converted to Judaism and who is not a member of another religion."
In section 5 of the Law of Return, 5710 - 1950, the following shall be added at the end: "Regulations for the purposes of sections 4A and 4B require the approval of the Constitution, Legislation and Judicial Committee of the Knesset."
In the Population Registry Law, 5725-1965, the following section shall be inserted after section 3:
3A.
A person shall not be registered as a Jew by ethnic affiliation or religion if a notification under this Law or another entry in the Registry or a public document indicates that he is not a Jew, so long as the said notification, entry or document has not been converted to the satisfaction of the Chief Registration Officer or so long as declaratory judgment of a competent court or tribunal has not otherwise determined.
For the purposes of this Law and of any registration or document thereunder, "Jew" has the same meaning as in section 4B of the Law of Return, 5710-1950.
This section shall not derogate from a registration effected before its coming into force.
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Old 11-08-2018, 01:00 AM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,837 posts, read 4,976,659 times
Reputation: 1510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorel36 View Post
Because the half indian/white person passed on more european genes than natives, and so on. You don't pass on exactly half of each of your parents dna, anything is possible when people are mixed.

Jewish people do not exist as an ethnic group, they mostly share the same dna as the people in their countries of origin, be it Hungary or Yemen. Their skin is white in Europe, light brown in Arab countries, black in Africa, dark brown in India.

The Ashkenazi especially have little connection to the original Israelites despite their claims. They will say that Ethiopian Jews for example are converts, when the European Jews are often the ones who converted. Regardless, many people and groups of people converted to Judaism throughout history and in many nations, and the Gentile ancestors outnumber the Jewish ones for sure.

Jews are merely a group of people loosely united by sets of beliefs and ideas. They share very little dna with the original Hebrews, and if we were to take tests more non Jews would have the same or greater percentage of Hebrew dna than Jews.

My Moroccan Jew ancestors possibly give me a more legitimate claim to a Hebraic bloodline than many people here.

This whole "blood lineage" is a useful myth.
I just found out my cousins took DNA, and my cousins have been trying to prove we are a quarter Cherokee for decades.

No Indian blood.

I have been running around telling people I am Native American, it is what we were always taught, and we look like Native Americans, my grandparents looked full blooded, now I don't believe even though we have some records showing Natives. I feel embarased now, I am more Scottish than anything, Irish and Scottish and a bit Scandinavian.
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Old 11-08-2018, 01:36 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,803 posts, read 10,715,921 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
To immigrate to Israel all you need is a Jewish grandparent. It doesn't matter what side there from at all. You have 350,000 people in Israel that call themselves Jewish, but the Chief Rabbis say there not Jewish. What the hell are they doing there?

In 1948 it was decided that anyone who would have been persecuted by the Nazis as a Jew should have a right to emigrate to Israel. Thus one Jewish grandparent, regardless of halachic status. For decades this was not big issue - I mean who really wanted to move to Israel who didnt have a real Jewish connection? Until the post-Soviet exodus - in addition to actual Russian Jews, lots of people with one Jewish grandparent, no connection to Jewish religion or culture, a great desire to leave a society in economic collapse to go to what was now a prosperous state.

I agree that the Law of Return as written has lots of issues - but amending it would open a huge can of worms.
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Old 11-08-2018, 01:45 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,803 posts, read 10,715,921 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
There is no blood or DNA component in being Ashkenazi. Someone can be from Yemen and be Ashkenazi. Someone can be from Germany and be Sephardi. A non-Jew can have ancestors who were Ashkenazim but thatdoesn't make him Ashkenazi. Saying someone who is from Poland is Polish, or from Germany is German isn't pedantic. It is accurate. Saying someone who isn't Jewish is part of a subgroup that subscribes to certain practices and traditions is inaccurate. Being of Ashkenazi descent isn't generally a concern of halacha because except for the question of following halachic practices and norms, your descent isn't an issue.


To clarify, "Ashkenazi culture" is often used differently from "ashkenazi rite"

A Jew who never davens at all is not following "nusach Ashkenaz" or "nusach Sephard". If they are not keeping kosher, then they are not following the the strictnesses and leniencies of one group or another. Nonetheless we call someone whose recent ancesters came from eastern europe and who spoke Yiddish (and who likely DID follow Ashkenazi religious practice) "ashkenazi" That is, AFAICT, usage still current in Israel, and still fairly common in the USA. Perhaps the usage will fade as the personal memory of the distinctive cultures of the the ashkenazi, sephardi, and mizrahi worlds fades in the diaspora, and as intermarriage among descendants of the groupings continues apace in Israel. At that point the terms will be restricted to descriptions of religious practices and the communities that follow them, and will only be used wrt observant Jews, but I don't think we are quite there yet.

Granted though, that is not "DNA". Someone whose grandparents were Yiddish speakers in Poland is (unless their grandparents are KNOWN to have followed sephardi practice - has that EVER happened?) is ashkenazi, whatever their more distant ancesters or their blood test.
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Old 11-08-2018, 01:48 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,803 posts, read 10,715,921 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElijahAstin View Post
There’s obviously a distant common ancestor linking the two groups (which makes sense, given pre-Ashkenazi Jewish migration patterns), but other than that fleeting connection, there’s very little genetic overlap. French-Canadians were also far more open to intermixing. A substantial proportion of French-Canadians have Native American/First Nations ancestry for that reason.

Ashkenazi Jews and Old Order Amish also have some rare disorders in common, but they’re still fairly distant genetically.
My understanding is that geneticists do NOT think there is any particular genetic connection between Ashkenazi Jews and Quebecois. Both had very small founder populations, and simply got unlucky in having TS in the founding population.
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Old 11-09-2018, 11:13 AM
 
Location: North by Northwest
7,442 posts, read 9,885,235 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
My understanding is that geneticists do NOT think there is any particular genetic connection between Ashkenazi Jews and Quebecois. Both had very small founder populations, and simply got unlucky in having TS in the founding population.
There has to be a common ancestor, because there’s the same mutation. That doesn’t mean there’s meaningful genetic proximity. For example, all blue-eyed people share a distant common ancestor.
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