U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Judaism
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-17-2018, 02:49 PM
 
546 posts, read 564,591 times
Reputation: 635

Advertisements

Pardon me, but I'm confused about this whole thing. If you don't have a Jewish soul (no matter how you were brought up), why would you say you were Jewish?

Your great-grandmother was an apostate. Yes, while Orthodox go by, "once a Jew, always a Jew," mosts Jews are not Orthodox.

As my rabbi taught when we were in Confirmation class, Jews are both a religion and a people. While you remain part of the "people" by extension in that equation, neither you, your father, nor your great-grandmother are part of the faith.
The problem with the "who is a Jew" situation is that there are adults who are 100% Jewish in both lines but who no longer practice any faith at all. In many people's eyes, they are more Jewish than patrilineal Jews who do practice. That makes no sense. It's those patrilineals who care enough about the faih that will keep it going. The others could care less.

We're all children of the same loving God, and I personally don't think that your father is having any kind of religious discussion with the Almighty. Pray to him and to God in the ways that are most comfortable to you. Sorry about the loss of your beloved father.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-18-2018, 12:46 AM
 
Location: Chicagoland area
277 posts, read 98,226 times
Reputation: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by LagunaMom View Post
Pardon me, but I'm confused about this whole thing. If you don't have a Jewish soul (no matter how you were brought up), why would you say you were Jewish?

Your great-grandmother was an apostate. Yes, while Orthodox go by, "once a Jew, always a Jew," mosts Jews are not Orthodox.

As my rabbi taught when we were in Confirmation class, Jews are both a religion and a people. While you remain part of the "people" by extension in that equation, neither you, your father, nor your great-grandmother are part of the faith.
The problem with the "who is a Jew" situation is that there are adults who are 100% Jewish in both lines but who no longer practice any faith at all. In many people's eyes, they are more Jewish than patrilineal Jews who do practice. That makes no sense. It's those patrilineals who care enough about the faih that will keep it going. The others could care less.

We're all children of the same loving God, and I personally don't think that your father is having any kind of religious discussion with the Almighty. Pray to him and to God in the ways that are most comfortable to you. Sorry about the loss of your beloved father.

I totally agree. But, their has to be at least 750,000 Americans that have maternal Jewish decent that goes back one or two generations that can have this confirmed to an Orthodox Rabbi that would still consider the descendant Jewish according to Jewish Law. Long story short, if my father went back to the Jewish nation before he died he might be seen as though he was always actually a Jew. I wouldn't be considered Jewish at all because my mother is a gentile.

Their are a people called the Falash Mura in Ethiopia and Eritrea that can confirm their historical practice of Judaism but most have little connection with Judaism today. Israel has already said they want to make the conversion process and immigration of this community to Israel easier because of their historical connection if they convert to Judaism. Same goes for an Ancient Chinese Jewish community trying to come to Israel today.

I've seriously thought about converting to Judaism. But, I seriously feel as though it's just not me. I don't have the will to do it. Not every one is meant to be Jewish or Christian or Hindu or Muslim. I feel Christianity is my religion. I'm ashamed I have such a hard time Being Roman Catholic. The only reason I made this Original post was because I am sick of my Identity Crisis.

It really does suck because my father always told me I'm Jewish. I know according to the Rabbi 's my old man would be considered A Jew only technically but not truly part of the Jewish people because he was Catholic.

The Orthodox Rabbi 's have interesting rules. Truly, I'm just coming to terms that while I may have some Jewish relatives and Jewish ancestors I am not Jewish. I wouldn't be surprised if over 150 million people have an Ancient connection to the Jewish people. I'm just one of many.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-18-2018, 04:16 AM
 
Location: US
27,953 posts, read 15,035,923 times
Reputation: 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
My understanding is that geneticists do NOT think there is any particular genetic connection between Ashkenazi Jews and Quebecois. Both had very small founder populations, and simply got unlucky in having TS in the founding population.
Maybe thatís what causes TS?...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-18-2018, 04:17 AM
 
Location: US
27,953 posts, read 15,035,923 times
Reputation: 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElijahAstin View Post
There has to be a common ancestor, because thereís the same mutation. That doesnít mean thereís meaningful genetic proximity. For example, all blue-eyed people share a distant common ancestor.
Blue eyes are a mutation...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-18-2018, 09:31 PM
 
Location: North by Northwest
7,442 posts, read 9,873,926 times
Reputation: 4687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Blue eyes are a mutation...
Yes, and?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2018, 03:24 AM
 
Location: US
27,953 posts, read 15,035,923 times
Reputation: 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElijahAstin View Post
Yes, and?
Thatís all Iím pointing out...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2018, 02:35 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,789 posts, read 10,703,951 times
Reputation: 2513
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElijahAstin View Post
There has to be a common ancestor, because thereís the same mutation. That doesnít mean thereís meaningful genetic proximity. For example, all blue-eyed people share a distant common ancestor.
All human beings have common ancestors. Now MAYBE the ancestor of the Ashkenazi Jews who we got TS from was some guy in the South of late antique gaul/early medieval France (lots of the gentile genetic ties of Ashkenazi jews are from there, IIUC) , who also had a descendant who wandered to the provinces (normandy and brittany) who provided most settlers to Quebec.

Or maybe we are descended from some dude from africa who had TS, and passed it to lots and lots of eurasian populations, not necessarily those with a connection to pre 800 CE France. But we and our quebec friends just got unlucky.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-28-2018, 10:23 AM
 
4,697 posts, read 1,217,814 times
Reputation: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
I have no true connection to Judaism. I was raised Catholic so was my father. Ever since I was in middle school my dad always told me I was Jewish. My father claimed his maternal grandmother was a Jewish convert to Catholicism.

I know going by this my father(who is dead now) is a Jew. But, I am not Jewish at all according to Orthodox Judaism. I used to get bullied for saying I was Jewish but as it turns out I'm not really Jewish at all. From now on I'm just going to say I'm Polish, Irish, Danish, and Hungarian.

My father had very black hair and was dark olive skinned. My mom always thought he looked Mongolian. Me and my sister both have brown hair she has brown eyes and I have strong hazel green eyes. My mom has blond hair and blue eyes. My father was 100% Polish excluding his Jewish grandmother but it's not common for Poles to have such dark skin.

Jews are a people it's not how you look but what you are on the inside. I know I don't have a Jewish soul. But, according to Orthodox Judaism my father does. If he continues to say he is Jewish in heaven that is up to him. As for me, I will cease doing so, I don't think it's right if I continue to do so.

I just had to get that off my chest it's, over.

Can anyone else relate?
well because of the diaspora of even thousands of years of things even like sea trading going on in and around Israel itself .. you may well be of " the lost clans of tribes of " Israel" " and that has squat to do with religion ... and anyone anywhere Could be from them also.. no one knows for sure..

you don't have to be of their religion to be of their male clan's lines geneticly. The point being they are all lost and no one knows But God where he spread them to Now. and God promises were to all Of Abrahams seed and to all of Israel seed. God says he spread them to the ends of the earth.. and If he said that, that is exactly what He did.

and True YOu wouldn't want to claim to Be clan of say clan "Judah" if you can't prove that statement.
But for my Fathers family I think I can prove with some certainty that He was clan Judah .. He was Not Jewish in religion But
they have been Christians for a very long time.

so this making them of the Clans of Israel but not "Jewish" in religion or practice .



it is true
but to be "Jewish" and of their religion says that your/ their mother must be of the Jewish religion at least anciently that was true .. which is also partly true anciently as to have rights ( inheritance by promises ) to the land of Israel and really the rest of the world most anciently is of the female clan lines .

Proof that they can be anywhere is just today I ran across this word..

Pirkei ( Avot)... it is interesting word !

and The in North America native Tribes of especially algonquin.. the Periki were the "wisemen" of their tribes..
so this makes me wonder what the Words Pirkei avot actually means in the most ancient of Hebrew and or Canaanite ( as in Canada)languages ..

I have been looking it up because MY Husbands family sirname is very nearly like this word and well they could have gotten it as either Native American Algonquin or as immigrants from Europe, because we don't know now .. But there was native American Algonquin males on his Father's side. and many unconnected individuals have had prophetic words and or dreams, Like with one being my Husband wearing an Israeli flag on his head as a bandana ..
so yes it is interesting to consider that God knows who the Lost clans of His people are and where every one of them is right now.

as reference to the concept of that covenant to restore all " Israel to Israel" someday , I offer this prophecy.



Eze 37:11


Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

Eze 37:12

Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

Eze 37:13

And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

Eze 37:14

And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

Eze 37:15


The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,

Eze 37:16

Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:

Eze 37:17

And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.


I say that to say only that there is of course a drive God placed in all of us to walk in the most ancient paths, to be rooted .. and so we all hunt for the most traditional ways we can walk in.. because Americanism is well shallow at best .. it ain't all that it is made out to be.. and it has no real roots except greed ..

Last edited by n..Xuipa; 11-28-2018 at 10:44 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-28-2018, 10:44 AM
 
Location: NJ
1,377 posts, read 493,645 times
Reputation: 590
Quote:
Originally Posted by n..Xuipa View Post

Proof that they can be anywhere is just today I ran across this word..

Pirkei...

and The in North America native Tribes of especially algonquin.. the Periki were the "wisemen" of their tribes..
so this makes me wonder what the Words Pirkei avot actually means in the most ancient of Hebrew and or Canaanite languages ..
"Pirkei" is based in the Hebrew root "perek" פּרק which means "chapter" or "section"
Translation

it is turned into plural (p'rakim) and then possessive (by adding the final Y). This makes it pirkei. In Hebrew, though, this particular section of the mishna is just called Mishna Avot because the tractate is "Avot" that is, sayings from the "fathers" the rabbis who put into aphorisms Jewish understanding and behavior.

So the word has nothing to do with "wisemen".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-28-2018, 11:23 AM
 
4,697 posts, read 1,217,814 times
Reputation: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
"Pirkei" is based in the Hebrew root "perek" פּרק which means "chapter" or "section"
Translation

it is turned into plural (p'rakim) and then possessive (by adding the final Y). This makes it pirkei. In Hebrew, though, this particular section of the mishna is just called Mishna Avot because the tractate is "Avot" that is, sayings from the "fathers" the rabbis who put into aphorisms Jewish understanding and behavior.

So the word has nothing to do with "wisemen".
well can I still say we do NOT know the roots of it..
the Father's of any or all nations living or dead were not the " wisemen" especially knowledge keepers of the ancients in "time"...?
and we still don't and won't know if it is Canaanite or Hebrew at it's most ancient roots. Every one is probably guessing now days.

*But

the "kim" , and "kin" well it kind of gives it root away does it not ? it appears to be a loan word..
is it not really a Canaanite word used by Hebrews. Because like the ana(ANI)kim etc.. They a known canaanite( sea people) clan like word probably meaning something like " the people of " or "the principle people of" .

Last edited by n..Xuipa; 11-28-2018 at 11:40 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Judaism
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top