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Old 11-02-2018, 12:49 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,816 posts, read 10,725,934 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeker0101 View Post
I have a couple questions about this. When did the government dissolve and why? They still existed during the time of Jesus, correct?

And though the government no longer exists today, the people do? If so, there are a ton of laws that are not followed because they were meant for that specific, theocratic nation, right?

The kingdom in the time of Jesus was ruled by the Herodian dynasty. They had been installed by Rome, and were more controversial than the dynasty they succeeded, the Hasmoneans - who were from a family of priests and NOT descended from the line of David.

As happened in other roman puppet states, over time the romans reduced the rank of the puppet dynasties and finally took over direct rule. This happened over time between year 40 of the common era ("AD") and the year 150 or so.

The Jewish people have lived on ever since, both in the land of Israel and in "exile".

There are laws that would apply to a state but that could not be applied without one (though it should be noted that in the middle ages many jewish communities had legal autonomy and did apply "secular" laws, such as their own tort law, to their own communities. Today some Orthodox jews apply such laws among themselves, on a voluntary basis) The state of Israel applies Jewish family law to its Jewish citizens, but otherwise does not apply Jewish law as the law of the state. It mostly follows English Common law, IIUC and Ottoman land law.
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Old 11-02-2018, 03:19 PM
 
10,567 posts, read 15,653,103 times
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OP, a human being born to a Jew female of uninterrupted bloodline is considered a Jew no matter what. One that was born to non such female is not a Jew. That likely helps you to clarify at what point a Jew becomes a non Jew. When female births bloodline becomes interrupted.

You may also, as you started with Noah, consider something else. How there were "many peoples" in short period of time after Noah, if his bloodline and generations are well known? Each and one of his descendants is accounted for yet, when Abraham kicked Ishmael out of estate, he went to live with other people that, apparently, existed in the Land of Egypt. That's just mentioned of. Likely, more were scattered around, skipped in Genesis. His 12 sons became "twelve princes" and gave foundation to twelve tribes, so clearly there were women available for them from already existing population - that appeared from who knows where, as the only living humans were Noah's descendants, right? Math simply does not add up, unless every female in Noah bloodline bore enormous numbers of children that spread widely all over everywhere. And, became non Jews, to your question.
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Old 11-03-2018, 12:29 AM
 
31 posts, read 4,459 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
You have to go to a rabbi and study Judaism. You need to answer questions before a panel of three rabbis called a bet din and commit to the Jewish people and its faith. You will need to take a ritual bath in a "mikveh" and if a male and not circumcized you will need to be circumcized. If already circumcized, or you have health issues making that impossible symbolic substitutes can be done, IIUC.

Orthodox and Conservative will ask you to commit to living by Jewish law, Reform, I think will not.

The rabbis on an orthodox bet din will all be male, not so for C and R.

Orthodox and Consverative will turn you away at first (by jewish law, three times) to make sure you are serious, and not being proselytized. Orthodox may do this more seriously than C. I don't think Reform bothers with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
The kingdom in the time of Jesus was ruled by the Herodian dynasty. They had been installed by Rome, and were more controversial than the dynasty they succeeded, the Hasmoneans - who were from a family of priests and NOT descended from the line of David.

As happened in other roman puppet states, over time the romans reduced the rank of the puppet dynasties and finally took over direct rule. This happened over time between year 40 of the common era ("AD") and the year 150 or so.

The Jewish people have lived on ever since, both in the land of Israel and in "exile".

There are laws that would apply to a state but that could not be applied without one (though it should be noted that in the middle ages many jewish communities had legal autonomy and did apply "secular" laws, such as their own tort law, to their own communities. Today some Orthodox jews apply such laws among themselves, on a voluntary basis) The state of Israel applies Jewish family law to its Jewish citizens, but otherwise does not apply Jewish law as the law of the state. It mostly follows English Common law, IIUC and Ottoman land law.
Thank you very much for both of your detailed replies. I really appreciate it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
OP, a human being born to a Jew female of uninterrupted bloodline is considered a Jew no matter what. One that was born to non such female is not a Jew. That likely helps you to clarify at what point a Jew becomes a non Jew. When female births bloodline becomes interrupted.

You may also, as you started with Noah, consider something else. How there were "many peoples" in short period of time after Noah, if his bloodline and generations are well known? Each and one of his descendants is accounted for yet, when Abraham kicked Ishmael out of estate, he went to live with other people that, apparently, existed in the Land of Egypt. That's just mentioned of. Likely, more were scattered around, skipped in Genesis. His 12 sons became "twelve princes" and gave foundation to twelve tribes, so clearly there were women available for them from already existing population - that appeared from who knows where, as the only living humans were Noah's descendants, right? Math simply does not add up, unless every female in Noah bloodline bore enormous numbers of children that spread widely all over everywhere. And, became non Jews, to your question.

I'm not very familiar with the story, so what you're saying is kind of going over my head, but it is interesting. I'll have to really read up on that at some point in time. Thanks for sharing.
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