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Old 10-31-2018, 11:39 PM
 
31 posts, read 4,428 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
in Judaism we learn that there are questions we can answer and there are questions we don't ask.
There are a number of different traditions. I'm curious to hear how rose or others respond.

I'd be curious to hear what others have to say as well. Thank you for sharing your views.
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Old 10-31-2018, 11:48 PM
 
31 posts, read 4,428 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
what difference does it make to you "which is which"?
that is a genuine question and I too am seeking to be courteous and not contentious.
Thank you.

I would like a solid understanding of the Jewish faith on certain topics, this most definitely being one of them. Also, in Christianity, John the Baptist was the prophet who ushered in Jesus Christ, so I was curious to know if there were any similarities between the two stories.
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Old 11-01-2018, 01:20 AM
 
13,092 posts, read 13,689,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeker0101 View Post
I would like a solid understanding of the Jewish faith on certain topics, this most definitely being one of them. Also, in Christianity, John the Baptist was the prophet who ushered in Jesus Christ, so I was curious to know if there were any similarities between the two stories.
I can share what I understand about Judaism. I have no interest in comparing Judaism to other religions or discussing religious figures from other religions or what other religions teach. Except to address erroneous misconceptions people may have about Judaism.
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Old 11-01-2018, 01:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
I can share what I understand about Judaism.I have no interest in comparing Judaism to other religions or discussing religious figures from other religions or what other religions teach. Except to address erroneous misconceptions people may have about Judaism.

I never asked you to compare Judaism to other religions, I'm doing that on my own. I've only asked you questions regarding your own religion.
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Old 11-01-2018, 02:47 AM
 
Location: Long Island
1,718 posts, read 1,387,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeker0101 View Post
Thanks for that. Does the description above fit the upcoming Messiah? That he will be coming "with the clouds of the heaven?"
Daniel's vision is that of the man being taken before God, not coming to earth.
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Old 11-01-2018, 03:20 AM
 
Location: US
27,968 posts, read 15,053,894 times
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The person didn’t leave their handle, but upped my rep points on post #2 with the following statement:

“JESUS is the way, the truth, the love. Repent!”

I’d say that’s harrassment...
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Old 11-01-2018, 03:26 AM
 
Location: US
27,968 posts, read 15,053,894 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
we don't focus on the person. We don't focus on who is the Maschiach. We don't focus on scrutinizing and predicting "when is it going to happen" or "who is it going to be." we focus on "how can we bring it to happen sooner." In Judaism there is in every generation a living person who could be Maschiach. Now. 20 years ago. 50 years ago. 200 years ago. Every generation there is a living breathing human person, alive and living and walking among us the literal Maschiach.

What determines if that person ushers in the Messianic era is NOT based on "predictions" or "analyzing texts" [in Judaism we are not supposed to do that, and it has negative results when people try to do it anyway] . The who and when of which person is revealed as Maschiach is determined by how we act in our every day lives and how we treat each other. Literally the arrival of Maschiach is regulated by our behavior, by our thought speech action and feelings, by how we live our daily life and the mitzvot we do each and every day and our constant awareness of G-d at all times and in all situations.

So the Messianic era and the person who turns out that generation to be the Maschiach, it could be sooner. Could be later. Could happen with ease. Could happen with difficulty. All of that is based on how well we treat each other, how much every day we live the life G-d wants us to live. In Judaism we are given instructions on how to live the life G-d wants us to live, and we do that by following the Torah and the 613 commandments and prayer and Torah study and mitzvot and acts of kindness.

The focus is on G-d, how we serve God this day, every day, here and now. And this brings the Messianic era sooner, and with more ease.
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Old 11-01-2018, 03:32 AM
 
Location: US
27,968 posts, read 15,053,894 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB from NC View Post
Christian translation try to shoehorn Jesus into everything.
Ain’t that the truth...
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Old 11-01-2018, 10:17 AM
 
31 posts, read 4,428 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB from NC View Post
Daniel's vision is that of the man being taken before God, not coming to earth.

Yes, I know. It says that in the same verse I quoted. That Son of Man will, according to your faith, eventually come to earth, right? So what I was originally asking Tzaphkiel was whether or not those were events that were attributed to the coming Messiah and it seems as though the article suggested that, yes, he will arrive either through worldly events (such as on a donkey, etc) or through some miracle ("with the clouds of the heaven", etc)

So then, having read the article he linked to, he was right in suggesting that there will be two Messiahs: Mashiach ben Dovid and Mashiach ben Yosef or Mashiach ben Ephraim, which brought me to my second question, attempting to insure that I had not misunderstood the position that the Jewish people maintain.

What I asked was this: Of the two Messiahs, will Mashiach ben Dovid be the Messiah that was mentioned in Daniel 7:13 and either Mashiach ben Yosef or Mashiach ben Ephraim the upcoming political figure that will usher in the way for that second Messiah (i.e. Mashiach ben Dovid) who, again, is mentioned in Daniel 7? Neither of which will be God and neither of which will be worshiped?

Regarding the reputation comment, I'm not the biggest fan of assuming, but that does sound like trolling to me. It may not be and the man may have had good intentions, but IMO, the way in which it was delivered seemed fueled (especially with the caps and hiding their username) and even I, as a Christian, kind of felt it. There are better ways to deliver a message and that, IMO, was not one of them.

That said, I'm personally not here to bother anyone, to argue just to argue or even to proselytize my religion (it's not my position to do that and I feel as though I've not done that from the very beginning), I'm simply here to learn. That really is it.
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Old 11-01-2018, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Long Island
1,718 posts, read 1,387,345 times
Reputation: 1410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeker0101 View Post
Yes, I know. It says that in the same verse I quoted. That Son of Man will, according to your faith, eventually come to earth, right? So what I was originally asking Tzaphkiel was whether or not those were events that were attributed to the coming Messiah and it seems as though the article suggested that, yes, he will arrive either through worldly events (such as on a donkey, etc) or through some miracle ("with the clouds of the heaven", etc)

So then, having read the article he linked to, he was right in suggesting that there will be two Messiahs: Mashiach ben Dovid and Mashiach ben Yosef or Mashiach ben Ephraim, which brought me to my second question, attempting to insure that I had not misunderstood the position that the Jewish people maintain.

What I asked was this: Of the two Messiahs, will Mashiach ben Dovid be the Messiah that was mentioned in Daniel 7:13 and either Mashiach ben Yosef or Mashiach ben Ephraim the upcoming political figure that will usher in the way for that second Messiah (i.e. Mashiach ben Dovid) who, again, is mentioned in Daniel 7? Neither of which will be God and neither of which will be worshiped?

Regarding the reputation comment, I'm not the biggest fan of assuming, but that does sound like trolling to me. It may not be and the man may have had good intentions, but IMO, the way in which it was delivered seemed fueled (especially with the caps and hiding their username) and even I, as a Christian, kind of felt it. There are better ways to deliver a message and that, IMO, was not one of them.

That said, I'm personally not here to bother anyone, to argue just to argue or even to proselytize my religion (it's not my position to do that and I feel as though I've not done that from the very beginning), I'm simply here to learn. That really is it.
I have no clue where any of that came from. I wasn't part of your conversation with Tzaph.

You asked me a specific question, and I answered.
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