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Old 11-01-2018, 10:47 AM
 
31 posts, read 4,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB from NC View Post
I have no clue where any of that came from. I wasn't part of your conversation with Tzaph.

You asked me a specific question, and I answered.
You're right. I'd forgotten that I asked you that question. But I think my response still stands, because it was a part of the question that I asked you.

I knew that that was Daniel's vision of the Man being taken before God, but what I wanted to know is if every single thing mentioned in Daniel 7:14 (i.e. being given authority, glory and sovereign power, having all nations and peoples of every language serve him, and that his dominion and kingdom would be everlasting and would never be destroyed) was everything you believed about your coming Messiah? And for Tzaphkiel, of course, was my wondering about who that Messiah will be and who will usher in the way for him.
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Old 11-01-2018, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Long Island
1,726 posts, read 1,392,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeker0101 View Post
You're right. I'd forgotten that I asked you that question. But I think my response still stands, because it was a part of the question that I asked you.

I knew that that was Daniel's vision of the Man being taken before God, but what I wanted to know is if every single thing mentioned in Daniel 7:14 (i.e. being given authority, glory and sovereign power, having all nations and peoples of every language serve him, and that his dominion and kingdom would be everlasting and would never be destroyed) was everything you believed about your coming Messiah? And for Tzaphkiel, of course, was my wondering about who that Messiah will be and who will usher in the way for him.
We believe that the messiah will reestablish the Davidic monarchy (it means the anointed one, after all), reign as king, and then die. We believe that once reestablished, the monarchy will continue through his sons. And we believe that there will be world peace, all of mankind will turn to Torah, and the nations of the world will seek the guidance of the king of Israel.
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Old 11-01-2018, 11:03 AM
 
31 posts, read 4,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB from NC View Post
We believe that the messiah will reestablish the Davidic monarchy (it means the anointed one, after all), reign as king, and then die. We believe that once reestablished, the monarchy will continue through his sons. And we believe that there will be world peace, all of mankind will turn to Torah, and the nations of the world will seek the guidance of the king of Israel.
Thank you. So this monarchy, according to your faith, will be an everlasting one that will never be destroyed?
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Old 11-01-2018, 02:46 PM
 
10,585 posts, read 15,667,229 times
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Seeker, consider this:



כו וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים, נַעֲשֶׂה אָדָם בְּצַלְמֵנוּ כִּדְמוּתֵנוּ; וְיִרְדּוּ בִדְגַת הַיָּם וּבְעוֹף הַשָּׁמַיִם, וּבַבְּהֵמָה וּבְכָל-הָאָרֶץ, וּבְכָל-הָרֶמֶשׂ, הָרֹמֵשׂ עַל-הָאָרֶץ. 26 And God said: 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the ear
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Old 11-01-2018, 02:47 PM
 
10,585 posts, read 15,667,229 times
Reputation: 11936
Sorry, I have to do 2nd cp here...


Now read this and do you see any differences:



ז וַיִּיצֶר יְהוָה אֱלֹהִים אֶת-הָאָדָם, עָפָר מִן-הָאֲדָמָה, וַיִּפַּח בְּאַפָּיו, נִשְׁמַת חַיִּים; וַיְהִי הָאָדָם, לְנֶפֶשׁ חַיָּה. 7 Then the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
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Old 11-01-2018, 02:49 PM
 
10,585 posts, read 15,667,229 times
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You have GOD and LORD GOD. You have male and female created in the image and likeness of the GOD.
Further down, you have LORD GOD, forming a man only out of the refuse, inferior materiel - dust of the ground.
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Old 11-01-2018, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Long Island
1,726 posts, read 1,392,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeker0101 View Post
Thank you. So this monarchy, according to your faith, will be an everlasting one that will never be destroyed?
It will last throughout the messianic era.
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Old 11-01-2018, 03:41 PM
 
13,098 posts, read 13,708,709 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeker0101 View Post
... That Son of Man will, according to your faith, eventually come to earth, right? So what I was originally asking Tzaphkiel was whether or not those were events that were attributed to the coming Messiah .
The human man who is mashiach (little m) does not "eventually come to the earth." he (little h) is already here. every generation. Events that happen at that time (world peace, no more war) are NOT attributed to that human person man. He does not cause them to happen, he is there when they happen. Just like he is here now. He participates as a physical human person does, as a leader does. Participating and leading is not causing. Otherwise obviously if he is here right now, then why isn't there world peace and no more war.

here is a video from Jews for Judaism that addresses your questions
https://jewsforjudaism.ca/daniel-713...-jewish-voice/

here is article on the mashiach in Judaism.
http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm



NOTE: posts are easier to read in a larger font. So wherever you are creating your text, if you copy and paste to note pad, then copy and paste into CD, they will appear normal size. please do this. thank you.

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 11-01-2018 at 03:58 PM..
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Old 11-01-2018, 03:41 PM
 
Location: US
28,010 posts, read 15,097,026 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
Sorry, I have to do 2nd cp here...


Now read this and do you see any differences:



ז וַיִּיצֶר יְהוָה אֱלֹהִים אֶת-הָאָדָם, עָפָר מִן-הָאֲדָמָה, וַיִּפַּח בְּאַפָּיו, נִשְׁמַת חַיִּים; וַיְהִי הָאָדָם, לְנֶפֶשׁ חַיָּה. 7 Then the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
What’s your point?...
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Old 11-01-2018, 05:25 PM
 
31 posts, read 4,460 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by JB from NC View Post
It will last throughout the messianic era.
Not a trick question and I'm open to "everlasting" not truly meaning "lasting forever", but I genuinely do wonder: Will this messianic era eventually come to an end?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
The human man who is mashiach (little m) does not "eventually come to the earth." he (little h) is already here. every generation. Events that happen at that time (world peace, no more war) are NOT attributed to that human person man. He does not cause them to happen, he is there when they happen. Just like he is here now. He participates as a physical human person does, as a leader does. Participating and leading is not causing. Otherwise obviously if he is here right now, then why isn't there world peace and no more war.

here is a video from Jews for Judaism that addresses your questions
https://jewsforjudaism.ca/daniel-713...-jewish-voice/

here is article on the mashiach in Judaism.
Judaism 101: Mashiach: The Messiah

NOTE: posts are easier to read in a larger font. So wherever you are creating your text, if you copy and paste to note pad, then copy and paste into CD, they will appear normal size. please do this. thank you.
Thank you for the links. I'll have to look over them a little later.

And sorry about the small letters. I type everything in Microsoft Word (have been doing so for 10+ years), to check spelling and also to save myself from losing larger amounts of work due to power outages, etc. I transferred over to notepad before posting, though, so is this post better or still not yet?

As for your statement about him not coming to earth: does the account in Daniel take place on earth? Is it a physical or a spiritual interaction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
What’s your point?...
In all honesty, that was the first thought that crossed my mind.

The Genesis creation account is very interesting to me and I've learned new things over and over again from what seems to be a simple story, but just so we're on the same page (speaking to ukrkoz here): what exactly was it that I asked that your response was in reference to? I wonder if you're telling me what I think (though I'm not sure) that Tzaphkiel is telling me? That the Jewish view of God is that He is purely made up of matter? I've heard this view before, but never really associated it with Judaism, which is why I ask.

Last edited by Seeker0101; 11-01-2018 at 05:41 PM..
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