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Old 12-22-2018, 09:37 PM
 
1,259 posts, read 296,178 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slapshotbob99 View Post
Well an Orthodox Jew would say that it goes back as far as Moses himself saying "ok, today is 'Day One' (Sunday) so count forward from here....."

I'm going to guess a more critical view would say Ezra must have established the current days of the week. After him and the "Great Assembly" it would have been too late for someone to change the schedule. Nobody would have the stature to do so.

My point is that Moses never said "Sunday" but rather 7th day is Sabbath. But Sabbath doesn't mean 7th day.



In other words a 7th day in a Lunar cycle doesn't necessarily line up with the 7th day in a solar cycle.

 
Old 12-22-2018, 09:38 PM
 
1,259 posts, read 296,178 times
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Thank you for the links but every they are getting it wrong. They are using Friday to state that it is the day the Manna fell. But the problem is that it wasn't Friday - it was the 6th day but that doesn't mean it was "Friday".
 
Old 12-22-2018, 09:43 PM
 
1,259 posts, read 296,178 times
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So let me give you an example of what I'm saying:


Solar week:


S M T W Th F Sa


Lunar week

1 2 3 4 5 6 7




Go back and look at history and you will see a new moon has occurred on all the days of the solar week. That means that if you start the Lunar week on a Monday then it would work out as (New moon - day 1 = M , day 2 = T, day 3 = W...., day 7 = Sunday).


You see the days of the week were not important. What I'm describing above is how everything is written. It is written such that Sabbath always falls on the half and full moon phases. So obviously if the new moon starts on a different day of the week then you cannot guarantee that the Sabbath will fall on a Saturday.
 
Old 12-22-2018, 11:40 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,364 posts, read 24,104,739 times
Reputation: 8869
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeWillCome2040 View Post
It is impossible to align days of the Lunar cycle with those of the weekly solar cycle. It can't work. It can be easily seen with trying to align the counting of the weeks from Barley Firstfruits to Wheat Firstfruits.
If you're going to deny Judaisms truth and traditional day of the week for the sabbath, then choose to explain why Christians use Sunday or explain why Muslims use Friday? As neither of them to my knowledge have used anything other for centuries?


That being said, the only way you can come up with a different day of the week is if you are a Atheist. If you live in a city/state/country that has a 7th day of rest law for those who 'work', then no employer can schedule you to work more than six days in a row without the 7th day becoming the day of rest by law. So depending on the date you started being an employee for said employer who has always scheduled you to work the same six days in a row to work every week, then you will consistently have the same day off each and every week. Then that becomes your traditional day off. Thus for you that single day may be any day of the week, but it will fall on the same day of the week for as long as you work for that employer. If by probability that day is Saturday, then Saturday will be your day of rest by law. If that employer follows the same scheduling for all employees, then all employees for said employer will also have the same day off. Then if another employer follows the same manner, followed by another, followed by another and so on, then traditionally everyone at a certain point in time will align up and have the same day off. Thus were will a time where the law falls away and is forgotten and all is left is the tradition. Thus by this logic, Saturday has become the standard day of rest for everyone no matter which of the other six days of the week they worked as those days no longer matter. Thus does that place it within a perspective that you can comprehend?
 
Old 12-23-2018, 02:10 AM
 
Location: NJ
1,390 posts, read 495,346 times
Reputation: 596
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeWillCome2040 View Post
So let me give you an example of what I'm saying:


Solar week:


S M T W Th F Sa


Lunar week

1 2 3 4 5 6 7




Go back and look at history and you will see a new moon has occurred on all the days of the solar week. That means that if you start the Lunar week on a Monday then it would work out as (New moon - day 1 = M , day 2 = T, day 3 = W...., day 7 = Sunday).


You see the days of the week were not important. What I'm describing above is how everything is written. It is written such that Sabbath always falls on the half and full moon phases. So obviously if the new moon starts on a different day of the week then you cannot guarantee that the Sabbath will fall on a Saturday.
Yes, if you start with a system completely at odds with Judaism, your conclusion won't align with that of Judaism. It is not written that the sabbath always falls out on the half and full moon phases. Start with an erroneous premise, end with an erroneous conclusion.
 
Old 12-23-2018, 02:45 AM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,364 posts, read 24,104,739 times
Reputation: 8869
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
Yes, if you start with a system completely at odds with Judaism, your conclusion won't align with that of Judaism. It is not written that the sabbath always falls out on the half and full moon phases. Start with an erroneous premise, end with an erroneous conclusion.
Or otherwise stated; Garbage in, Garbage out.


Shavua Tov
 
Old 12-23-2018, 10:19 AM
 
1,259 posts, read 296,178 times
Reputation: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
If you're going to deny Judaisms truth and traditional day of the week for the sabbath, then choose to explain why Christians use Sunday or explain why Muslims use Friday? As neither of them to my knowledge have used anything other for centuries?


That being said, the only way you can come up with a different day of the week is if you are a Atheist. If you live in a city/state/country that has a 7th day of rest law for those who 'work', then no employer can schedule you to work more than six days in a row without the 7th day becoming the day of rest by law. So depending on the date you started being an employee for said employer who has always scheduled you to work the same six days in a row to work every week, then you will consistently have the same day off each and every week. Then that becomes your traditional day off. Thus for you that single day may be any day of the week, but it will fall on the same day of the week for as long as you work for that employer. If by probability that day is Saturday, then Saturday will be your day of rest by law. If that employer follows the same scheduling for all employees, then all employees for said employer will also have the same day off. Then if another employer follows the same manner, followed by another, followed by another and so on, then traditionally everyone at a certain point in time will align up and have the same day off. Thus were will a time where the law falls away and is forgotten and all is left is the tradition. Thus by this logic, Saturday has become the standard day of rest for everyone no matter which of the other six days of the week they worked as those days no longer matter. Thus does that place it within a perspective that you can comprehend?

you running away from the facts I presented.



Did the Jews use a Lunar Calendar?
Did the Sabbath align with the Phases of the Moon?
Does the Lunar Calendar ordinal days align with the Solar week days?


That last one is the one that proves it can't be. This is not a knock against the Jews. I believe they did see it this way. I just believed something has changed.
 
Old 12-23-2018, 10:20 AM
 
1,259 posts, read 296,178 times
Reputation: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
Yes, if you start with a system completely at odds with Judaism, your conclusion won't align with that of Judaism. It is not written that the sabbath always falls out on the half and full moon phases. Start with an erroneous premise, end with an erroneous conclusion.

Again, nobody has explained how those align with the Lunar phases.
 
Old 12-23-2018, 10:28 AM
 
13,092 posts, read 13,689,872 times
Reputation: 9157
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeWillCome2040 View Post
you running away from the facts I presented.



Did the Jews use a Lunar Calendar?
Did the Sabbath align with the Phases of the Moon?
Does the Lunar Calendar ordinal days align with the Solar week days?


That last one is the one that proves it can't be. This is not a knock against the Jews. I believe they did see it this way. I just believed something has changed.
The Jewish calendar is lunisolar. It is a blend of both lunar and solar which are intercalated that is interwoven

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Days...ebrew_calendar

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 12-23-2018 at 10:39 AM..
 
Old 12-23-2018, 10:35 AM
 
Location: NJ
1,390 posts, read 495,346 times
Reputation: 596
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeWillCome2040 View Post
Again, nobody has explained how those align with the Lunar phases.
And nobody has to because your premise is flawed. The weekly sabbath is a function of the cycle of solar days, not lunar months. You insist otherwise, but you are wrong.
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