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Old 12-23-2018, 11:46 AM
 
Location: NJ
1,377 posts, read 493,645 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeWillCome2040 View Post
Let me ask you this. Is passover during a full moon? and which day of the month is it?
Why do you keep asking about the day of the month -- you mean the date, right? The number of the day counting from the new moon. The Passover is on the 15th of the lunar month. The day of the week could shift because of the variable lengths of months. The sabbath, though, is on a day of the week regardless of that day's distance from the new moon.

 
Old 12-23-2018, 11:52 AM
 
1,259 posts, read 295,523 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
Why do you keep asking about the day of the month -- you mean the date, right? The number of the day counting from the new moon. The Passover is on the 15th of the lunar month. The day of the week could shift because of the variable lengths of months. The sabbath, though, is on a day of the week regardless of that day's distance from the new moon.

But you have to understand that the moon is used for the appointed times. The Sabbath is also an appointed time. Therefore, the 7th days cycles WITHIN the LUNAR Month are dictating the appointed time of the Sabbath. If you understand that, then it will become obvious that it can't always fall on Saturday since "Saturday" is based on the Solar Calendar.
 
Old 12-23-2018, 12:02 PM
 
Location: NJ
1,377 posts, read 493,645 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeWillCome2040 View Post
But you have to understand that the moon is used for the appointed times. The Sabbath is also an appointed time. Therefore, the 7th days cycles WITHIN the LUNAR Month are dictating the appointed time of the Sabbath. If you understand that, then it will become obvious that it can't always fall on Saturday since "Saturday" is based on the Solar Calendar.
No, you have to understand that the moon is used to establish the dates of the holidays, not the sabbath. Using an English term (appointed time) does not change anything. The weekly cycle for the sabbath is solar (based on the cycle of light/dark because of the sun). Once you understand that it will be obvious to you that he rest of your statements are wrong. Simply insisting your point repeatedly doesn't change reality.
 
Old 12-23-2018, 12:11 PM
 
13,092 posts, read 13,681,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeWillCome2040 View Post
But you have to understand that the moon is used for the appointed times. The Sabbath is also an appointed time. Therefore, the 7th days cycles WITHIN the LUNAR Month are dictating the appointed time of the Sabbath. If you understand that, then it will become obvious that it can't always fall on Saturday since "Saturday" is based on the Solar Calendar.
What dictates Shabbat is the 7th day cycle.
Day cycle = solar not lunar.
The Jewish calendar and festivals are based on both solar and lunar cycles.

Shabbat is a reflection of G-d making creation and resting on the seventh day. Read those verses in Genesis. Counting of days. No mention of moon cycles.

The Torah tells us, "Six days you shall work, and the seventh day is Shabbat, for the Lord your G-d." (Deut. 5:13)

"And on the seventh day you shall rest" (Exodus 23:12)

"And G-d finished on the Seventh Day the work that He had made, and He rested on the Seventh Day from all the work that He had made" (Genesis, 2:2).

No mention of phases of the moon. See?

http://www.aish.com/sh/t/e/Shabbat_-...tml?mobile=yes

http://www.aish.com/sh/t/e/Big_Creat...tml?mobile=yes

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 12-23-2018 at 12:30 PM..
 
Old 12-23-2018, 12:15 PM
 
1,259 posts, read 295,523 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
No, you have to understand that the moon is used to establish the dates of the holidays, not the sabbath. Using an English term (appointed time) does not change anything. The weekly cycle for the sabbath is solar (based on the cycle of light/dark because of the sun). Once you understand that it will be obvious to you that he rest of your statements are wrong. Simply insisting your point repeatedly doesn't change reality.



No, the Sabbaths are also appointed times and will fall on Lunar Phases of the moon at the half and full moons.


This is born out in examples from the writings.


For example, if you count the 7 sabbatical weeks from the the first day after the Sabbath of the First month (after Firstfruits of Barley) you will come to the 15th day of the 3rd month. That couldn't be the case if the days were always changing.


That is why you find the Feast of Weeks is on the 16th of the 3rd month. 7 Sabbaticals plus one day.
 
Old 12-23-2018, 12:21 PM
 
Location: NJ
1,377 posts, read 493,645 times
Reputation: 590
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeWillCome2040 View Post
No, the Sabbaths are also appointed times and will fall on Lunar Phases of the moon at the half and full moons.


This is born out in examples from the writings.


For example, if you count the 7 sabbatical weeks from the the first day after the Sabbath of the First month (after Firstfruits of Barley) you will come to the 15th day of the 3rd month. That couldn't be the case if the days were always changing.


That is why you find the Feast of Weeks is on the 16th of the 3rd month. 7 Sabbaticals plus one day.
See, you're doing it again, insisting your position even though it is wrong. Your subsequent math is ridiculous as it is based on your initial error. Shavu'ot is not on the 16th day of the 3rd month.


You are completely allowed to invent your own system and make up whatever you want. It just has nothing to do with Judaism. Good luck.
 
Old 12-23-2018, 12:27 PM
 
1,259 posts, read 295,523 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
What dictates Shabbat is the 7th day cycle.
Day cycle = solar not lunar.
The Jewish calendar and festivals are based on both solar and lunar cycles.

Shabbat is a reflection of G-d making creation and resting on the seventh day. Read those verses in Genesis. Counting of days. No mention of moon cycles.

The Torah tells us, "Six days you shall work, and the seventh day is Shabbat, for the Lord your G-d." (Deut. 5:13)

"And on the seventh day you shall rest" (Exodus 23:12)

"And G-d finished on the Seventh Day the work that He had made, and He rested on the Seventh Day from all the work that He had made" (Genesis, 2:2).

No mention of phases of the moon. See?

Shabbat - Heaven on Earth



Psa 104:19
 
Old 12-23-2018, 12:28 PM
 
1,259 posts, read 295,523 times
Reputation: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
See, you're doing it again, insisting your position even though it is wrong. Your subsequent math is ridiculous as it is based on your initial error. Shavu'ot is not on the 16th day of the 3rd month.


You are completely allowed to invent your own system and make up whatever you want. It just has nothing to do with Judaism. Good luck.



I have the evidence of the writings and history of when these events occurred on my side.
 
Old 12-23-2018, 12:32 PM
 
Location: NJ
1,377 posts, read 493,645 times
Reputation: 590
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeWillCome2040 View Post
I have the evidence of the writings and history of when these events occurred on my side.
No, you have your stilted misunderstanding of things, stocked with cherry picked phrases in poor translation in order to validate your errors. The text is quite clear -- the sabbath is based on a solar day/night cycle but the holidays are based on the lunar month cycle. You don't have to like it, but that's the way it is.
 
Old 12-23-2018, 12:34 PM
 
392 posts, read 122,250 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeWillCome2040 View Post
That is all bunk. If you look at the writings, you will see that the Phases of the moon are dictating the Sabbath ordinals. So therefore, you cannot get the to always align with the named days of the week.
This is ridiculous, and all of those who engage in extended discussion of this are ignoring the nonsensical basis of this person's "argument." The phases of the moon, Saturn and Uranus all have NOTHING to do with when the Sabbath falls. Whether you name the days of the week (a human convention, btw, not an astronomical phenomenon) by numbers, Norse "gods" and heavenly bodies, or temporal distance from the seventh day, the week still is just seven days, counted over and over. While a day depends on the sun, lunar, solar or any other establishment of a year has NOTHING to do with when the seventh day falls. Passover, Groundhog Day, and Washington's birthday come and go, and Election Day falls on Tuesday regardless of whether you are Jewish or not.

If you can count to seven, you should be able to understand this. If not, let me just inform you that the real question is not when Shabbos occurs in a goyische leap year, or, for that matter, in a Jewish leap year. The real question is, "Do they have a fourth of July in England?"
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