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Old 12-23-2018, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
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When Reform Jews states that they not only the same as Conservative Jews, but are better Jews; How would one respond to it?
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Old 12-23-2018, 12:19 PM
 
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I would have to first know WHAT specifically they mean by that. All 3 major movements (plus Sephardic) all think they are the best. I don't want to start an unnecessary flame-war here. Which is exactly where this could go.

As a Conservative Jew, I politely disagree with both the Reform and the Orthodox. I personally think that the Reform Jews go too far. They cut away so much that I wouldn't be able to reconcile it with continued belief in the Bible at all. I myself would stop going to shul altogether. But if they find it fulfilling, that's up to them. Similarly, I think the Orthodox go too far in the other direction. They have so much certainty in not only the perfection of the texts, but also multiple generations of human rabbis that I can't always go along with.

From what I read in the Bible, Judaism requires a combination of being "good human beings" along with being a specific holy nation with a homeland we will return to one day. Reform Judaism cuts back or eliminates that second part of the equation. I can't agree with that. I also can't agree with some of the very liberal social positions of Reform Judaism.
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Old 12-23-2018, 03:05 PM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slapshotbob99 View Post
I would have to first know WHAT specifically they mean by that. All 3 major movements (plus Sephardic) all think they are the best. I don't want to start an unnecessary flame-war here. Which is exactly where this could go.

As a Conservative Jew, I politely disagree with both the Reform and the Orthodox. I personally think that the Reform Jews go too far. They cut away so much that I wouldn't be able to reconcile it with continued belief in the Bible at all. I myself would stop going to shul altogether. But if they find it fulfilling, that's up to them. Similarly, I think the Orthodox go too far in the other direction. They have so much certainty in not only the perfection of the texts, but also multiple generations of human rabbis that I can't always go along with.

From what I read in the Bible, Judaism requires a combination of being "good human beings" along with being a specific holy nation with a homeland we will return to one day. Reform Judaism cuts back or eliminates that second part of the equation. I can't agree with that. I also can't agree with some of the very liberal social positions of Reform Judaism.
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Old 12-23-2018, 04:26 PM
 
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The best Jew is the one who meets and exceeds his potential.
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Old 12-23-2018, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,367 posts, read 24,115,390 times
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Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
The best Jew is the one who meets and exceeds his potential.

Doesn't answer the question. A better way for you to respond is for to discuss the time before you became a BT.
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Old 12-23-2018, 06:23 PM
 
13,092 posts, read 13,693,439 times
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The phrase better Jew is not one we use to compare ourselves to others. It is one we use in regards to our own self. I seek to be a better Jew now than I was previously. Better for me is closer to Hashem, more mitzvot, more observant, improve middot (character traits). The intention is not to be better than other people because that is arrogant and boastful. The intention in being better is closer to Hashem and living a life of Torah.

A Jew is a Jew. No labels. We are one people.

If a Jew for whatever reason has not learned and seen and understood the deep beauty of Judaism and Torah then it is as if they have been kidnapped and raised with other ideas and values instead.

This is also not new. A key part of Judaism is to NOT succumb to secular values. Follow the laws of the land we live in, yes. But take on the values of the lands we are exled to, no. In Egypt when we were taken out, wasn't it something like 80% did not leave but had assimilated? Choosing secular values over Torah is a form of idolatry because it puts something ahead of or more important than G-d.

The wisdom and depth and beauty of living a kosher life of Torah is immense. It doesn't get any better than that.

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 12-23-2018 at 06:40 PM..
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Old 12-23-2018, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,367 posts, read 24,115,390 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
The phrase better Jew is not one we use to compare ourselves to others. It is one we use in regards to our own self. I seek to be a better Jew now than I was previously. Better for me is closer to Hashem, more mitzvot, more observant, improve middot (character traits). The intention is not to be better than other people because that is arrogant and boastful. The intention in being better is closer to Hashem and living a life of Torah.

A Jew is a Jew. No labels. We are one people.

If a Jew for whatever reason has not learned and seen and understood the deep beauty of Judaism and Torah then it is as if they have been kidnapped and raised with other ideas and values instead.
This is also not new. A key part of Judaism is to NOT succumb to secular values. Follow the laws of the land we live in, yes. But take on the values of the lands we are exled to, no. In Egypt when we were taken out, wasn't it something like 80% did not leave but had assimilated?

The wisdom and depth and beauty of living a kosher life of Torah is immense. It doesn't get any better than that.
It's not a philosophical question that requires a megilla. Within the levels of adherence to Judaism, Should "Reform" become the modern 21st century version that would be the version south of being Modern Orthodox in the position instead of Conservative or even Masorti? Or is "Reform" Messianic Judaism w/o Jesus where anything goes similar to Christianity where nearly all the 613 mitzvot are(were) thrown out the window.
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Old 12-23-2018, 07:03 PM
 
399 posts, read 123,224 times
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Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
When Reform Jews states that they not only the same as Conservative Jews, but are better Jews; How would one respond to it?
Pretty funny question, but I like mine better: WHY would one respond to it?
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Old 12-23-2018, 08:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Doesn't answer the question. A better way for you to respond is for to discuss the time before you became a BT.
I belonged to reform and conservative shuls when I lived in my parents house. That prepared me and lead me to worshiping Jerry Garcia as my deity in my 20s. For me, it was all a life of emptiness until Bíh, I married a woman in my late 20s who was interested in yiddishkite. Now I have 2 boys sitting and learning in Yeshiva, younger ones at home where my 7 year old old knows more about Torah than I did at 27. And Bíh, my cup is full. Iím entirely unable to distinguish reform from conservative from my youth. They were equally meaningless to me, although Iíve learned in this forum that my experience isnít necessary universal. Some take these non observant Jewish practices very seriously. One can always do teshuva.
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Old 12-23-2018, 11:35 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,367 posts, read 24,115,390 times
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Originally Posted by ben Shunamit View Post
Pretty funny question, but I like mine better: WHY would one respond to it?
Why is not a option. How is the only option for this thread.
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