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Old 04-12-2019, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Naples FL
602 posts, read 137,131 times
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As I said I’m not religious.... however I think intermarriage is important for reasons of cultural stability. Judaism is a religion but you can be any religion or none at all and still be of the Jewish race.
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Old 04-13-2019, 10:12 PM
 
13,092 posts, read 13,685,110 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork View Post
Intermarriage isn't wrong "on many levels." It is wrong on only one level, and that pertains to whether or not one is Torah observant.
I disagree. It is more than that. It is on many levels. There are many instances of Jews for instance who are non observant yet will only marry Jews, or come from non observant famies whose parents insist they marry a Jew. For many reasons.

Just as throughout history for hundreds of years, for thousands of years, there have been Jews yes including non observant Jews who refuse attempts at forced conversion even when it means being burned alive or murdered in other ways.

Same thing. There are plenty of non observant Jews who will not give up or discard our Jewishness. And that is exactly what intermarriage is and does.

Intermarriage destroys, reduces, diminishes, annihilates, disappears, erases, damages the Jewish people. Plenty of Jews recognize that regardless of their observance.

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 04-13-2019 at 10:24 PM..
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Old 04-14-2019, 12:17 AM
 
Location: Naples FL
602 posts, read 137,131 times
Reputation: 876
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
I disagree. It is more than that. It is on many levels. There are many instances of Jews for instance who are non observant yet will only marry Jews, or come from non observant famies whose parents insist they marry a Jew. For many reasons.

Just as throughout history for hundreds of years, for thousands of years, there have been Jews yes including non observant Jews who refuse attempts at forced conversion even when it means being burned alive or murdered in other ways.

Same thing. There are plenty of non observant Jews who will not give up or discard our Jewishness. And that is exactly what intermarriage is and does.

Intermarriage destroys, reduces, diminishes, annihilates, disappears, erases, damages the Jewish people. Plenty of Jews recognize that regardless of their observance.
This
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Old 04-14-2019, 06:10 AM
 
563 posts, read 55,311 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
I disagree. It is more than that. It is on many levels. There are many instances of Jews for instance who are non observant yet will only marry Jews, or come from non observant famies whose parents insist they marry a Jew. For many reasons.

Just as throughout history for hundreds of years, for thousands of years, there have been Jews yes including non observant Jews who refuse attempts at forced conversion even when it means being burned alive or murdered in other ways.

Same thing. There are plenty of non observant Jews who will not give up or discard our Jewishness. And that is exactly what intermarriage is and does.

Intermarriage destroys, reduces, diminishes, annihilates, disappears, erases, damages the Jewish people. Plenty of Jews recognize that regardless of their observance.

You are conflating intermarriage with forced conversion.

I don't concern myself with who people fall in love with, and whatever statistical effect that has on the Jewish "race." Judaism is a religion, first and foremost. You don't nurture faith by means of population control.

We can remain Jewish regardless of who we live with.
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Old 04-14-2019, 06:15 AM
 
32,063 posts, read 32,962,795 times
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Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork View Post

We can remain Jewish regardless of who we live with.
True but if one has children and the mother is not Jewish, those children will not be considered Jewish (no matter how they are raised) by Jewish religious tradition.
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Old 04-14-2019, 06:24 AM
 
563 posts, read 55,311 times
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Originally Posted by Chava61 View Post
True but if one has children and the mother is not Jewish, those children will not be considered Jewish (no matter how they are raised) by Jewish religious tradition.

There are Reform congregations that recognize patrilineal descent.
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Old 04-14-2019, 08:15 AM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,339,069 times
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Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork View Post
There are Reform congregations that recognize patrilineal descent.
Correct. But thatís a far far cry from what the Torah considers as Jewish.
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Old 04-14-2019, 08:24 AM
 
45 posts, read 19,702 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork View Post
There are Reform congregations that recognize patrilineal descent.
Matrilineal descent is based on interpretations of the great sages based on the Torah and other sources and is not something that should be changed based on convenience. Even if the child is born from a Jewish mother there will be a pull from the non-Jewish side of the family to follow another religion.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:14 AM
 
Location: U.S.A
54 posts, read 6,438 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
I disagree. It is more than that. It is on many levels. There are many instances of Jews for instance who are non observant yet will only marry Jews, or come from non observant famies whose parents insist they marry a Jew. For many reasons.
I think we are getting somewhere. . . Things like love, compatibility, and understanding should be prepared to take a second seat to the wants of mommy and daddy.

What you are describing sounds like a type of slow death of a people. Jews are 0.25% of the world population. It's this type of thinking that has gotten us to this point.

This 0.25% will only go lower if some change is not made. You simply cannot keep insisting that the fix is in this long term conflated thought process. If a person keeps doing the same repeated thing, and the results become more undesirable. That would signal a needed change.

As much as Jews fight for the right to survive. Sometimes they have no greater enemy than the person they greet every morning in the mirror.

By ignoring a problem long enough. You allow for it to manage itself. And that's exactly '0.25' whats happening.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:27 AM
 
5,917 posts, read 2,286,203 times
Reputation: 2221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
I disagree. It is more than that. It is on many levels. There are many instances of Jews for instance who are non observant yet will only marry Jews, or come from non observant famies whose parents insist they marry a Jew. For many reasons.

Just as throughout history for hundreds of years, for thousands of years, there have been Jews yes including non observant Jews who refuse attempts at forced conversion even when it means being burned alive or murdered in other ways.

Same thing. There are plenty of non observant Jews who will not give up or discard our Jewishness. And that is exactly what intermarriage is and does.

Intermarriage destroys, reduces, diminishes, annihilates, disappears, erases, damages the Jewish people. Plenty of Jews recognize that regardless of their observance.
We didn't have any children in our marrage. How does this destroy etc Jewish people? I am an individual and my right to marry who I love are far greater in importance than your wanting to manta in the Jewish population. It is nit even close.

If it came to this I would choose my wife over my parents.I had two Jewish parents and neither of them are that Jewish. I think that my sister is more Jewish in many ways than my parents and she married a Protestant.

ME and my wife met, fell in love, got married and have had a good marrage coming on 45 years. I think it selfishness on people like you that believe that marrying another Jew is more important than marrying for love.
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