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Old 01-17-2019, 09:13 PM
 
66 posts, read 30,051 times
Reputation: 73

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Hi Ukrkoz,

Your premise would make sense if all of the Jews were doing this, however when the majority of Jews are not this premise does not hold water. It’s been projected by some that we could potentially lose millions of people. To sit back and do nothing is not an option, not if we care about our people.
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Old 01-18-2019, 06:50 AM
 
33,090 posts, read 34,039,521 times
Reputation: 15555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maccabee36 View Post
Hi Chava61,

I think you hit the nail right on the head. It is a lack of Jewish identity. So what do we do about it? Surely there is a way, nothing is truly impossible. If you had the people, money and resources what would you do?

To further emphasis our ability to make a difference. There are certainly cases of people who started as secular Jews and later became more religious. How do we replicate this on a massive scale?
One thing would be to make private Jewish schools more affordable or even free for secular Jewish families who decide for financial reasons to send their children to local public schools.
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Old 01-19-2019, 12:02 PM
 
548 posts, read 591,327 times
Reputation: 636
My comments are meant for non-Orthodox Jews, since we'll never agree. I think the solution is to be more welcoming to non-Jewish spouses.

I myself was in panic mode many years ago when my son married someone who was Catholic. It could go either way with the entire family and almost did. (More panic.) They were living out-of-state for many years, but when we'd come into town on weekends, we'd ask if we could take the kids (as they came) to temple. They ended up moving closer to us, and my DIL--who had not been to church for many years--decided with our son that they wanted the kids to be brought up Jewish. Not only that, she wants to convert! Our first grandkiddo will become a bat mitzvah later this year. There'll be a 4-year break, and they'll be a b'nai mitzvah a year for the next 3 years. I am one lucky grandma.

I'm a practicing third-generation Reform Jew. There hasn't been an Orthodox Jew in my line since my great-grandparents who came from Europe in the late 19th century. I strongly believe that the future of Judaism lies in two hands: one of Orthodox Jews; the other from intermarried families of mostly patrilineal Jews. The reason is simple: there are members of my own family, as well as friends, who have 2 Jewish parents (in one case, Orthodox) and still don't see themselves as Jewish. They don't practice. They don't contribute in any way to the betterment or continuation of the Tribe. To keep us going as a vibrant people, if our personal beliefs permit, we need to open our arms and our hearts to those of us who aren't like us and take every opportunity to expose non-Jewish spouses to the beauty of our faith.
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Old 01-19-2019, 06:06 PM
 
66 posts, read 30,051 times
Reputation: 73
Hi Chava61,

I think that’s a great idea.

I know that I said originally that this scenario was based on the belief that you had the money and resources to pay for it. Well I don’t know about you but I don’t
So the question is how would the Jewish community pay for it. For instance do we lobby the big Jewish charitable organizations to chip in for this initiative? Do we form some type of not for profit to take donations? What do you think should be done to fund such a program?
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Old 01-19-2019, 10:36 PM
 
4,197 posts, read 3,478,365 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LagunaMom View Post
My comments are meant for non-Orthodox Jews,
That was clear, as you posted this in the dead middle of Shabbos.
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Old 01-19-2019, 10:52 PM
 
4,436 posts, read 4,053,103 times
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As a community, fully fund Jewish day schools of all denominations from age 2 to 18 so that Jewish parents won't have to choose public schools because they can't afford day school.

Fully fund active vibrant inclusive Hillel organizations on all college campuses, so that Jewish kids at college and university have a welcoming place to go to socialize with one another.

Fully fund Jewish singles clubs, havurot, etc in every city so that Jewish young adults have a way to meet each other after they finish their educations.

As a community, change halachah to recognize the children of a Jewish man and a non-Jewish woman as Jews. Halachah was not meant to be dead and frozen. It should be able to be carefully, cautiously updated by our Jewish scholar-leaders as a living body of law, for a living community. Matrilineal descent is NOT Torah m'Sinai. In fact, Patrilineal descent is!

Improve after-school Hebrew school education so that kids WANT to go, for those who choose not to attend day school.

Fully fund Jewish summer camps - day and sleep away - so that families will choose Jewish camping experiences for their kids.

Welcome intermarried families into synagogues and the Jewish community. I know many such families where the non-Jewish spouse eventually converted to Judaism because they saw how much their family had been welcomed and included in the Conservative or Reform synagogue community.
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Old 01-20-2019, 03:08 AM
 
145 posts, read 71,632 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maccabee36 View Post
Hi AniHaGever,

I like that, it is very funny. I like the slogan too “Make Judaism Great Again” Hmm.. sounds vaguely familiar where have I heard something similar before...

Seriously though, I don’t think that we should give up on the secular Jews. If you dig deep enough below the surface of any Jew, you will find a spiritual spark. A lot of secular Jews have never been fully exposed to Judaism. If we provide Jewish insights and education perhaps we will light a spiritual flame and then there will indeed be more religious Jews to marry

The question is how do we perform the outreach and how do we provide that education? Also are there other ways to light that spiritual flame? What do you think?




Majority of them not interested whilst some what we call the chilonim maminim(israeli secular believers) will do a Mitvzah here and there or have a religious moment. They most definetly will be want to be subscribing to a religous demanding lifestyle. so better to turn our attention to non jews who have more spiritual potential

it may be non jews who are the future of judaism
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Old 01-20-2019, 06:55 AM
 
66 posts, read 30,051 times
Reputation: 73
Hi LagunaMom,

You don’t have to address your comments to non-Orthodox Jews. We are all Jews here, so let’s talk. I think that most of us generally agree that an intermarriage is far from ideal, but once it happens I can understand why you made the moves that you made. I think that your strategy was more than just welcoming it was also transformative.

You mentioned that your daughter in law wants to convert. You also mentioned that your grandchildren are being raised Jewish. You did not mention if your grandchildren had converted. I know that in the Reform movement that they believe in something called
Patrilineal Descent, this is not a view that is shared by the wider Jewish world. As your grandkids go off into the world they may interact with this wider community and I would think that as a grandmother you would want your grandchildren to be accepted as Jews.

Have your grandchildren been converted and if not is that something you would consider?
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Old 01-20-2019, 08:14 AM
 
33,090 posts, read 34,039,521 times
Reputation: 15555
Quote:
Originally Posted by LagunaMom View Post
My comments are meant for non-Orthodox Jews, since we'll never agree. I think the solution is to be more welcoming to non-Jewish spouses.

I myself was in panic mode many years ago when my son married someone who was Catholic. It could go either way with the entire family and almost did. (More panic.) They were living out-of-state for many years, but when we'd come into town on weekends, we'd ask if we could take the kids (as they came) to temple. They ended up moving closer to us, and my DIL--who had not been to church for many years--decided with our son that they wanted the kids to be brought up Jewish. Not only that, she wants to convert! Our first grandkiddo will become a bat mitzvah later this year. There'll be a 4-year break, and they'll be a b'nai mitzvah a year for the next 3 years. I am one lucky grandma.

I'm a practicing third-generation Reform Jew. There hasn't been an Orthodox Jew in my line since my great-grandparents who came from Europe in the late 19th century. I strongly believe that the future of Judaism lies in two hands: one of Orthodox Jews; the other from intermarried families of mostly patrilineal Jews. The reason is simple: there are members of my own family, as well as friends, who have 2 Jewish parents (in one case, Orthodox) and still don't see themselves as Jewish. They don't practice. They don't contribute in any way to the betterment or continuation of the Tribe. To keep us going as a vibrant people, if our personal beliefs permit, we need to open our arms and our hearts to those of us who aren't like us and take every opportunity to expose non-Jewish spouses to the beauty of our faith.
The problem with your statement about being more welcoming to non-Jewish spouses is that the Orthodox Jewish community will never accept non-Jewish spouses who have not converted to Judaism.

My father refused to go to my sister's reform style Jewish wedding when she married a non-practicing of any religion non-Jew many years ago. My father came around to accepting the marriage when the children were born much later as the children are Jewish according to Orthodox Jewish tradition. My sister opted to send her children to a public charter school as the Jewish schools were simply not affordable and there is no practice of any non-Jewish tradition in her home. Her son didn't want a proper Bar-Mitva but did have a minimalist Bar-Mitzva ceremony at a Chabad center in Israel when my father paid for my sister's family to travel to Israel for this occasion.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Maccabee36 View Post
Hi Chava61,

I think that’s a great idea.

I know that I said originally that this scenario was based on the belief that you had the money and resources to pay for it. Well I don’t know about you but I don’t
So the question is how would the Jewish community pay for it. For instance do we lobby the big Jewish charitable organizations to chip in for this initiative? Do we form some type of not for profit to take donations? What do you think should be done to fund such a program?
I don't know how a better Jewish education can be funded. But I am sure with Jewish ingenuity, Jewish organizations should be able to figure something out!
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Old 01-20-2019, 10:21 AM
 
4,197 posts, read 3,478,365 times
Reputation: 1304
Any conversion done outside the Torah observant world is not a universally accepted conversion. Or a stronger way to say it, is the Torah considers that “convert” a goy.
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