U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Judaism
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 01-20-2019, 09:24 AM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,339,069 times
Reputation: 1246

Advertisements

Iíve seen that idea before that the only way Reform/Conservative can survive another generation of two will be with the mass conversion of goyim to Judaism. Thatís a spectacularly impossible idea to accomplish. If thatís the best plan youíve got, then youíre all already lost. Or you could just find a Jewish outreach organization and start learning the way Torah Jews have lived for the last 3300 years.
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-20-2019, 10:16 AM
 
Location: US
27,956 posts, read 15,043,765 times
Reputation: 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
Any conversion done outside the Torah observant world is not a universally accepted conversion. Or a stronger way to say it, is the Torah considers that ďconvertĒ a goy.
Is there any reference to this?...
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-20-2019, 11:23 AM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,339,069 times
Reputation: 1246
Itís a great kindness to deny their conversion if not done with a commitment to keep all the mitzvos. As a goy, they only have 7 mitzvos they have to follow. If they become a Jew but donít keep Shabbos, kosher, family purity, etc, then they have signed up to become an ďaveira machine.Ē They would constantly be transgressing mitzvos díoirsas. So weíre kind to the non orthodox conversion by saying theyíre not really Jewish.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-20-2019, 02:16 PM
 
45 posts, read 19,702 times
Reputation: 42
Hi Chava61,

I understand your fatherís position, personally I would not feel comfortable going to a intermarriage ceremony either. After the ceremony though I believe that it is important to keep the lines of communication open otherwise how do you influence things going foward. If you are unfriendly people may not react very well and may do the opposite of what you would like them to do. What do you think?

I also agree with you that Jewish Organizations should be able to figure it out, it is trying to get them to do it that is the issue.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-20-2019, 02:33 PM
 
45 posts, read 19,702 times
Reputation: 42
Hi AniHaGever,

I think that we need to be patient with the secular Jews, it is rare that someone becomes religious overnight.

Getting back to your other idea, Judaism is not a religion that encourages converts. That said there are quite a few descendants of people that were forced to convert during the inquisition, especially in Latin America that are now trying to rediscover their Judaism. There are also people in other places that claim to have Jewish heritage as well. Perhaps we should open up more avenues for them to discover their Jewish heritage and if they truly want to convert for the right reasons allow them to do so.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-20-2019, 03:01 PM
 
45 posts, read 19,702 times
Reputation: 42
Hi Parentologist,

These are for the most part excellent ideas.

The only think that I do not agree with is changing the Halacha. The Halacha has been around for thousands of years and formulated by the great sages based on the Torah and other sources.

As far as the ideas are concerned, what are your ideas in regard to funding these programs? Do we lobby the big Jewish charitable organizations? To do this they may have to fully focus their efforts on this issue. Personally I think it is money well spent. How about you?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-21-2019, 06:21 AM
 
32,063 posts, read 32,962,795 times
Reputation: 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maccabee36 View Post
Hi Chava61,

I understand your fatherís position, personally I would not feel comfortable going to a intermarriage ceremony either. After the ceremony though I believe that it is important to keep the lines of communication open otherwise how do you influence things going foward. If you are unfriendly people may not react very well and may do the opposite of what you would like them to do. What do you think?

I also agree with you that Jewish Organizations should be able to figure it out, it is trying to get them to do it that is the issue.
I encouraged my sister at the time to keep the lines of communication with my father open (as she wanted to cut all contact with him). So they do have relationship now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maccabee36 View Post

Getting back to your other idea, Judaism is not a religion that encourages converts. That said there are quite a few descendants of people that were forced to convert during the inquisition, especially in Latin America that are now trying to rediscover their Judaism. There are also people in other places that claim to have Jewish heritage as well. Perhaps we should open up more avenues for them to discover their Jewish heritage and if they truly want to convert for the right reasons allow them to do so.
I think that descendants of Jews who were forced to convert during the Inquisition should be encouraged to check out their Jewish heritage and be allowed to convert back to Judaism if they really feel that they belong to the Jewish people and want to live as Orthodox Jews.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-23-2019, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Camberville
12,012 posts, read 16,758,787 times
Reputation: 19717
As the child of an interfaith couple, all you have to do is look in this thread and see why many other children of interfaith couples reject Judaism. Who wants to be part of a community who holds you and your family in such disdain?


My father was very invested in raised a Jewish family though he was not Jewish and had no interest in converting (a lifelong agnostic). My mother, on the other hand, was so hurt at the rejection she faced in her community and by members of her family for marrying someone who is not Jewish that it was a total nonstarter in our home. The first time I set foot in a service was in college... and even then, I felt distinctly rejected because I was Jewish and it was an uphill battle in every setting to feel like I was wanted and included.



Making people feel rejected and alienated from Judaism is a sure way of making sure that the Jewish line ends in that family.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-24-2019, 05:51 AM
 
45 posts, read 19,702 times
Reputation: 42
Hi Charolastra00,

You should not be made to feel rejected or unwanted you are just a Jewish as any of us. I agree with you that the Jewish community should be welcoming.

You mentioned that the first time you set foot in a service was in college and that you felt rejected and unwanted. What was it that made you feel that way? Did people make comments? Did you feel uncomfortable because the service was a new experience for you and no one took the time to explain what was going on? In what other settings did you feel rejected or not included and why?

You mentioned that you had a family conflict. It is not unusual a lot of families do. Do you see both sides of the conflict? How do you think it could have been handled better?

Last edited by Maccabee36; 01-24-2019 at 06:03 AM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-25-2019, 03:37 AM
 
45 posts, read 19,702 times
Reputation: 42
Hi Charolastra00,

I just wanted to follow up on my comments and clarify that while I believe that we should be welcoming, I still believe that there is a link between intermarriage and assimilation. While in some families children are being raised as Jews the vast majority are not. I think that in a lot of cases it has to do with the conflicting religions views that pull children away from Judaism.

While in your case you may have been raised Jewish and itís wonderful that you were, if most of the children of intermarriage are not this does not bode well for our future. I was just wondering if you could see that side as well?

Last edited by Maccabee36; 01-25-2019 at 04:38 AM..
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Judaism
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top