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Old 01-30-2019, 10:34 AM
 
Location: NJ
1,382 posts, read 494,347 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
I donít disagree with any of that Rosends. While a Torah life does not guarantee your children will stay on the derech, a lack of one almost certainly guarantees the end of that familyís Jewish lineage within another couple generations.

Mrs Flop and I always comment how chazal knew what they were doing when they codified the laws of kashrus. It really does keep Yidden from fraternizing with the goyim, and thereby reduces the risk, Chas víshalom, that we would marry one of them.
Very true, but fortunately, I can attest to a couple of success stories -- people whose background was relatively lacking in Jewish grounding and education but who ended up in environments where they exposed to Judaism and found a future in the community. Maybe the exception, true, but still worth pointing out.
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Old 01-30-2019, 11:19 AM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,339,069 times
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Originally Posted by rosends View Post
Very true, but fortunately, I can attest to a couple of success stories -- people whose background was relatively lacking in Jewish grounding and education but who ended up in environments where they exposed to Judaism and found a future in the community. Maybe the exception, true, but still worth pointing out.
Of course thatís why we do kiruv. Until they join promise keepers, thereís always hope theyíll do teshuva. But kiruv is generally only effective one family at a time. We lose thousands of Jews to intermarriage and assimilation for every Jew who comes back to Torah Judaism. As weíve said many times, assimilation is the true holocaust weíre facing.
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Old 02-01-2019, 05:31 AM
 
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Hi theflipflop,

I really enjoyed your Halachic discourse. It makes sense that parents definitely have a responsibility to talk their children out of intermarriage. It also makes sense that after the intermarriage that you do not shun your kids.

I understand that if you do not raise your kids in a Jewish environment you have some blame for whether or not they intermarry. Under Jewish Law though donít the people who intermarry still have some responsibility for their actions if they know that it is forbidden by Halacha?
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Old 02-01-2019, 07:07 AM
 
32,063 posts, read 32,962,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maccabee36 View Post
Hi theflipflop,

I really enjoyed your Halachic discourse. It makes sense that parents definitely have a responsibility to talk their children out of intermarriage. It also makes sense that after the intermarriage that you do not shun your kids.

I understand that if you do not raise your kids in a Jewish environment you have some blame for whether or not they intermarry. Under Jewish Law though don’t the people who intermarry still have some responsibility for their actions if they know that it is forbidden by Halacha?
If an adult child is marrying at a later age, I doubt the parent can talk their son/daughter out of marrying whoever they please including a non-Jew. My sister married a non-Jew here in the USA. You can't really blame my parents for her choice as she was 28 at the time, she grew up in Israel from age 8 in a traditionally conservative Jewish home environment. It was her choice to return to live in the USA as an adult and I know that when she met her husband (via colleagues) and he first approached her to go on a date she initially tried to reject him. As I wrote prior my dad didn't attend her wedding but after her son was born (his first grandson although he already had 2 granddaughters via my brother), my father became closer to her again. I do want to mention that my sister's household has Jewish tradition in it as her husband doesn't practice his own religion and it was agreed in advance that their children be raised Jewish (and of course by Halacha both my sister's children are Jewish in any case).
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Old 02-01-2019, 09:26 AM
 
Location: US
27,956 posts, read 15,043,765 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chava61 View Post
If an adult child is marrying at a later age, I doubt the parent can talk their son/daughter out of marrying whoever they please including a non-Jew. My sister married a non-Jew here in the USA. You can't really blame my parents for her choice as she was 28 at the time, she grew up in Israel from age 8 in a traditionally conservative Jewish home environment. It was her choice to return to live in the USA as an adult and I know that when she met her husband (via colleagues) and he first approached her to go on a date she initially tried to reject him. As I wrote prior my dad didn't attend her wedding but after her son was born (his first grandson although he already had 2 granddaughters via my brother), my father became closer to her again. I do want to mention that my sister's household has Jewish tradition in it as her husband doesn't practice his own religion and it was agreed in advance that their children be raised Jewish (and of course by Halacha both my sister's children are Jewish in any case).
Awesome!...
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Old 02-01-2019, 10:00 AM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,339,069 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chava61 View Post
If an adult child is marrying at a later age, I doubt the parent can talk their son/daughter out of marrying whoever they please including a non-Jew. My sister married a non-Jew here in the USA. You can't really blame my parents for her choice as she was 28 at the time, she grew up in Israel from age 8 in a traditionally conservative Jewish home environment. It was her choice to return to live in the USA as an adult and I know that when she met her husband (via colleagues) and he first approached her to go on a date she initially tried to reject him. As I wrote prior my dad didn't attend her wedding but after her son was born (his first grandson although he already had 2 granddaughters via my brother), my father became closer to her again. I do want to mention that my sister's household has Jewish tradition in it as her husband doesn't practice his own religion and it was agreed in advance that their children be raised Jewish (and of course by Halacha both my sister's children are Jewish in any case).
This is a nice story. The challenge, however, is that statistically speaking, itís almost a certainty that those kids will intermarry when they grow up. Itís nice to bring them up Jewish, but unless the family somehow becomes Torah Observant, weíll still lose this Jewish line in another generation (statistically speaking - of course anything is possible).
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Old 02-01-2019, 02:06 PM
 
32,063 posts, read 32,962,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
This is a nice story. The challenge, however, is that statistically speaking, it’s almost a certainty that those kids will intermarry when they grow up. It’s nice to bring them up Jewish, but unless the family somehow becomes Torah Observant, we’ll still lose this Jewish line in another generation (statistically speaking - of course anything is possible).
It is hard tell. They celebrated my sister's son's Bar Mitzva in Israel with my father (who still lives in Israel) and then toured around the country meeting some of my mom's relatives who live in Israel. This did made quite an impression on my sister's children so they do have more a connection to Israel and Judaism than average American Jewish children.
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Old 02-02-2019, 04:41 PM
 
45 posts, read 19,702 times
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Hi Chava61,

Perhaps you can build on their connection to Israel and Judaism. Teach the children about Judaism and show them the beauty of the religion. When you get a chance take them to Shul. Invite them over for holidays and Shabbat. Take them to Jewish museums and talk to them about Israel. I am sure you can think of a lot of other good ideas. What do you think?

Also in regard to your other post, I agree with you that it is very hard to convince an adult not to intermarry, but why not at least make an attempt?
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Old 02-03-2019, 06:40 AM
 
32,063 posts, read 32,962,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maccabee36 View Post
Hi Chava61,

Perhaps you can build on their connection to Israel and Judaism. Teach the children about Judaism and show them the beauty of the religion. When you get a chance take them to Shul. Invite them over for holidays and Shabbat. Take them to Jewish museums and talk to them about Israel. I am sure you can think of a lot of other good ideas. What do you think?
Since they live on the other side of the country from me, your suggestions are kind of irrelevant. In general, I inform about Jewish holidays taking place and wish them accordingly. All this is done via the only messenger app that are allowed to use a my sister is very restrictive with their internet usage. As for Shabbat dinners, my mom/their grandmother lives practically walking distance from them and until recenlty before her health deteriorated, she used to invite them over to Friday night/Shabbat dinners at her place.
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Old 02-03-2019, 02:03 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,339,069 times
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From what I understand, the whole birthright Israel thing has been a bust. Those kids are still being influenced by the political party that most Jews identify with, to support BDS and hate Israel. I’ve heard of leftist kids taking the birthright trip and joining BDS/J Street like activities WHILE ON THEIR TRIP!! Moderator cut: Politics removed.

Last edited by mensaguy; 02-07-2019 at 05:21 PM.. Reason: Politics
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