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Old 02-10-2019, 07:04 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
How does that square with resurrection?...
Unrelated. One is now. One is future.
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Old 02-10-2019, 08:54 AM
 
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Tzaph and I are making the same point. That we cannot possibly understand the motivations of Hashem to allow the holocaust to happen, but don’t think for a minute the Nazis got the better of Hashem - outflanked Him, so to speak. Chas v shalom. And perhaps this “pruning” of the world’s giants of Torah was exactly what the Jewish people needed.

I recognize that if you don’t believe in Hashem that this sounds cruel. Maybe right now is the time to do tshuva. It’s nwvwr too late.
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Old 02-10-2019, 09:26 AM
 
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Jews are here and thriving.
Third Reich is gone.
Haman is gone.
The Haidemaks are gone.
Pharaoh is gone.
Roman empire is gone.
Greek empire is gone.
Inquisition is gone.
Crusades are gone.
Czars are gone.

Jews are still here and thriving.

Any person place institution ideology group or government that seeks to attack or destroy Jews, sows the seeds of its own destruction.

That promise was given and has been kept.

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 02-10-2019 at 09:41 AM..
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Old 02-11-2019, 03:01 AM
 
Location: US
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Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
Unrelated. One is now. One is future.
I believe that we’re dead in sheol until the day of resurrection according to Tanakh, so how can anyone be an influence after death unless they left behind a legacy...
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Old 02-11-2019, 07:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
I believe that we’re dead in sheol until the day of resurrection according to Tanakh, so how can anyone be an influence after death unless they left behind a legacy...
The tzaddikim beseech G-d on our behalf. The tzaddikim have immense love and concern for the Jewish people. Just as mama Rachel weeps and beseeches G-d for us her children so too do the tzaddikim advocate and plead. for us and for our well being.


"Jacob foresaw that in the future, following the destruction of the First Temple, the Jews would be driven from their homes and forced into exile in Babylon. On their dispirited march, they would pass on this very road and cry to Rachel. They would take courage from her presence, and she would beseech G‑d on their behalf."

https://www.chabad.org/library/artic...ver-Rachel.htm

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 02-11-2019 at 08:59 AM..
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Old 02-11-2019, 07:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
I believe that we’re dead in sheol until the day of resurrection according to Tanakh, so how can anyone be an influence after death unless they left behind a legacy...
The physical body "dies." Our non physical soul does not die. It came from G-d and returns to G-d. It is active in the heavenly realms. It may reincarnate to complete mitzvot not done in previous lives. Or to help the Jewish people in a time of need.

The neshama of a Jew, and how much more so the neshama of a tzaddik or "Torah giant," yearns to serve God and demonstrate ahavas Yisrael whether it is in a physical body or not.

Note
neshama "soul"
ahavas Yisrael "love for the Jewish people"
tzaddik "sage or righteous one"
mitzvot "commandments"

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 02-11-2019 at 09:00 AM..
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Old 02-11-2019, 07:14 PM
 
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"The ARIzal writes that it is a great mitzvah to draw close to God by visiting the graves of tzaddikim. Through praying at such a grave, we can bind ourselves to that tzaddik, and even acquire some of the tzaddik's holiness. Because we are aroused to repentance by the power of the tzaddik, our prayers are more acceptable. At the same time, the tzaddik will entreat God on our behalf."

Arizal = Rabbi Yitzchak Luria

https://m.breslev.co.il/html/rebbe_n...nguage=english
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Old 02-11-2019, 07:21 PM
 
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Also, "a tzaddik has the power to elevate all souls, including those that have not made even the slightest move towards spirituality. A tzaddik's connection with G-d has the power to elevate anyone who comes into contact with him, drawing him closer to G-d."

From same link just above
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Old 02-11-2019, 07:24 PM
 
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"Tzaddikim are greater after their passing than during their lifetimes" (Chullin 7b).

Why?

"The tzaddik's power is limited by the confines of his physical body [when alive]. But after death, when his soul ascends to much greater levels, he acquires more power to draw others close to God, and in that way, to rectify their souls."
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Old 02-11-2019, 07:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
I believe that we’re dead in sheol until the day of resurrection according to Tanakh, so how can anyone be an influence after death unless they left behind a legacy...
Regarding a "reference in Tanakh"...

"The time-honored Jewish custom of visiting the graves of tzaddikim is first mentioned in the Bible. When the spies entered the Land of Israel, the Torah says, "And they ascended from the south, and he came to Chebron" (Bamidbar13:22). Since there were twelve spies, why does the verse state, "And he came to Chebron"? Rashi explains he refers to Caleb. Caleb wanted to be saved from the counsel of the spies and therefore went alone to pray at the graves of the Patriarchs."

Caleb learned the importance of praying next to a tzaddik's grave from his ancestor, Yaakov, when he buried Rochel.
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