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Old 03-12-2019, 07:57 AM
 
13,727 posts, read 14,089,026 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB from NC View Post
I'm a religious Jew, and I wear one. The vast majority of religious Jews I know also wear one, whether they are Reform, Conservative, or Orthodox.

The only group I've ever seen (as a group) not wear them is the ultra-orthodox.
Us of the phrase "ultra orthodox" is pejorative and disparaging.

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 03-12-2019 at 08:14 AM..
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Long Island
1,754 posts, read 1,452,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
Us of the phrase "ultra orthodox" is pejorative and disparaging.
I disagree, but I will make an effort to use Hasidic in the future in order to help promote peace in our forum.
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:35 AM
 
487 posts, read 148,175 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
I have. Working for 25 years in Orthodox schools, I have seen plenty -- on kippot, on bracelets and necklaces, in designs on bags and clothing. I bought one for my wife many years ago.
Thank you. I now know more than I did yesterday.
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Old 03-12-2019, 02:29 PM
 
4,197 posts, read 3,478,365 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB from NC View Post
I disagree, but I will make an effort to use Hasidic in the future in order to help promote peace in our forum.
Strike 2. The term Hasidic does not apply to American Torah Observant Jews.
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Old 03-12-2019, 02:34 PM
 
4,197 posts, read 3,478,365 times
Reputation: 1304
Quote:
Originally Posted by JB from NC View Post
I'm a religious Jew, and I wear one. The vast majority of religious Jews I know also wear one, whether they are Reform, Conservative, or Orthodox.

The only group I've ever seen (as a group) not wear them is the ultra-orthodox.
You call Reform and Conservatice Jews “Reigious Jews?” Interesting. Ok, for forum peace, I’ll know what you mean in the future.

Last edited by theflipflop; 03-12-2019 at 03:13 PM..
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Old 03-12-2019, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Long Island
1,754 posts, read 1,452,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
Strike 2. The term Hasidic does not apply to American Torah Observant Jews.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
You call Reform and Conservatice Jews “Reigious Jews?” Interesting. Ok, for forum peace, I’ll know what you mean in the future.
I don't care about your "strikes". If Hasidic doesn't fit, then it's back to ultra-orthodox. To call them "Religious" or "Torah Observant" implies that only their members are so, and that is both false and an insult to people outside of the group that are religious and/or Torah observant.

A religious Jew is one that is religious, regardless of what movement he or she is part of.
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Old 03-12-2019, 04:34 PM
 
13,727 posts, read 14,089,026 times
Reputation: 9681
Quote:
Originally Posted by JB from NC View Post
I don't care about your "strikes". If Hasidic doesn't fit, then it's back to ultra-orthodox. To call them "Religious" or "Torah Observant" implies that only their members are so, and that is both false and an insult to people outside of the group that are religious and/or Torah observant.

A religious Jew is one that is religious, regardless of what movement he or she is part of.
then simply use the term religious Jew.
or observant Jew.
or Torah observant Jew.

because if a group or person does not recognize and accept the existence of G-d, does not recognize and accept Torah, including its divine origins, does not recognize and accept Jewish law, then they have discarded all that makes a Jew religious. If a person chooses secular mores instead, then they are secular and not religious.

It raises the question, what do you (or anyone else who wants to answer) consider a "religious Jew."
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Old 03-12-2019, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Long Island
1,754 posts, read 1,452,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
then simply use the term religious Jew.
or observant Jew.
or Torah observant Jew.

because if a group or person does not recognize and accept the existence of G-d, does not recognize and accept Torah, including its divine origins, does not recognize and accept Jewish law, then they have discarded all that makes a Jew religious. If a person chooses secular mores instead, then they are secular and not religious.

It raises the question, what do you (or anyone else who wants to answer) consider a "religious Jew."
I've already addressed why I'm not going to use those terms in the post you quoted.

As for a definition of "religious", it is believing in a religion. That they do so in a manner that YOU disagree with is irrelevant and does not change the meaning of a word.
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Old 03-12-2019, 05:27 PM
 
13,727 posts, read 14,089,026 times
Reputation: 9681
Quote:
Originally Posted by JB from NC View Post
I've already addressed why I'm not going to use those terms in the post you quoted.

As for a definition of "religious", it is believing in a religion. That they do so in a manner that YOU disagree with is irrelevant and does not change the meaning of a word.
but if a group or person rejects the core of the religion --- in this case Torah, divine origins of Torah, Jewish law, and G-d--- then they don't believe in the religion. They reject the religion. Because they reject the beliefs and practices and very core and foundation and identity of the religion. They gut the heart and soul and are left with an empty shell. They may be a Jew, but they are not a religious Jew.

regarding "meaning of a word" there is a secular meaning, there is a religious meaning. I'll use the example rosends uses. anyone can claim to be a Russian citizen but Russian law determines what is a Russian citizen.

Again when a person chooses secular mores, including secular definitions, then they indicate they value being secular more than being religious.

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 03-12-2019 at 05:44 PM..
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Old 03-12-2019, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Long Island
1,754 posts, read 1,452,736 times
Reputation: 1472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
but if a group or person rejects the core of the religion --- in this case Torah, divine origins of Torah, Jewish law, and G-d--- then they don't believe in the religion. They reject the religion. Because they reject the beliefs and practices and very core and foundation and identity of the religion. They gut the heart and soul and are left with an empty shell. They may be a Jew, but they are not a religious Jew.

regarding "meaning of a word" there is a secular meaning, there is a religious meaning. I'll use the example rosends uses. anyone can claim to be a Russian citizen but Russian law determines what is a Russian citizen.

Again when a person chooses secular mores, including secular definitions, then they indicate they value being secular more than being religious.
Again, your disagreement with their beliefs, which you have grossly mischaracterized, does not change the English language.

Do you honestly believe that every Jew who does belong to an ultra-orthodox sect has completely rejected God and Judaism?
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