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Old 05-16-2019, 01:31 PM
 
581 posts, read 58,592 times
Reputation: 368

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
  • an irreverent or derogatory name for Jesus Christ
https://jel.jewish-languages.org/words/628

Curious as to why you didn't post the rest of that dictionary entry that you linked. Here it is:


  • a nickname for Yosef or Yehoshua (archaic Yiddish form)
Example Sentences

  • "Christmas is Yoshke's birthday."
Languages of Origin

Yiddish
Etymology

יאָשקע - a Yiddish diminutive form of Jesus' Hebrew name
Who Uses This

Orthodox: Jews who identify as Orthodox and observe halacha (Jewish law)
Older: Jews who are middle-aged and older
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Old 05-16-2019, 01:45 PM
 
810 posts, read 594,750 times
Reputation: 947
Can we check the thread drift a little bit?
Nobody has any good theories (well besides, "some people will always be xenophobes and take whatever cover they can find for it")?
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Old 05-16-2019, 01:58 PM
 
810 posts, read 594,750 times
Reputation: 947
Here is one, but quite tenuous, and doesn't explain the crusaders' hatred of Jews (or any prior to the rise of Nazism).

Enlightenment Europeans made a sharp distinction between semitic people (Jews and Muslims originating in the Middle East) and Indo-Europeans (bluntly, whites.) Look at today's linguistics. Never mind that Mediterranean cultures span both. Never mind that there were very extensive contacts via wars, trade and travel between the Middle East and Europe.

Nazis took that to the extreme and adopted Indo-European symbols like the Swastika and essentially either denied Christianity or tried to sever the roots of Christianity from Judaism. So it was essential to portray Semitics as the impure "them" vs the pure "us". And of course, Max Muller's theories of the origin of Aryans in Caucasus helped. Never mind the continuity in the cultures of supposedly pre-Aryan Iran/India/Central Asia and their post-Aryan versions. The main thing was, Greeks and Romans didn't learn anything from Jews, only the other way around.

Without blaming the victims, maybe the Jewish "aloofness" - stress on maintaining their own identity, food,language, culture, at all costs helped this separation too. Not that Jews shouldn't have, but that it definitely helped crystallize the us vs them attitudes.

I don't claim it's a great theory or even partially right, but at least it is one possibility.
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Old 05-16-2019, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,071 posts, read 54,565,498 times
Reputation: 66428
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfa-ish View Post
Here is one, but quite tenuous, and doesn't explain the crusaders' hatred of Jews (or any prior to the rise of Nazism).

Enlightenment Europeans made a sharp distinction between semitic people (Jews and Muslims originating in the Middle East) and Indo-Europeans (bluntly, whites.) Look at today's linguistics. Never mind that Mediterranean cultures span both. Never mind that there were very extensive contacts via wars, trade and travel between the Middle East and Europe.

Nazis took that to the extreme and adopted Indo-European symbols like the Swastika and essentially either denied Christianity or tried to sever the roots of Christianity from Judaism. So it was essential to portray Semitics as the impure "them" vs the pure "us". And of course, Max Muller's theories of the origin of Aryans in Caucasus helped. Never mind the continuity in the cultures of supposedly pre-Aryan Iran/India/Central Asia and their post-Aryan versions. The main thing was, Greeks and Romans didn't learn anything from Jews, only the other way around.

Without blaming the victims, maybe the Jewish "aloofness" - stress on maintaining their own identity, food,language, culture, at all costs helped this separation too. Not that Jews shouldn't have, but that it definitely helped crystallize the us vs them attitudes.

I don't claim it's a great theory or even partially right, but at least it is one possibility.
I believe that is part of it. Some mistakenly see the setting apart as a statement of superiority.

"Chosenness" is often perceived in that way. I myself once saw it as akin to claiming to be the favorite child. Some years ago, on the old AOL message boards, I became involved in discussions with a group of Jewish women, Conservative and Orthodox. They explained to me that being "chosen" is not a claim of favoritism or superiority, but rather a responsibility to keep Torah and serve as an example.

This was an eye-opener to me, and changed my previous perception. I am quite sure that there are many who thought the way I once did and who assume that Jews simply think they are better than everyone else.

It is not a matter of Jewish people needing to change. It is a matter of understanding that the erroneous perception exists and perhaps, when appropriate, providing education to those open to learning.
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Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 05-16-2019 at 03:50 PM..
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Old 05-16-2019, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,364 posts, read 24,104,739 times
Reputation: 8869
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfa-ish View Post
Can we check the thread drift a little bit?
Nobody has any good theories (well besides, "some people will always be xenophobes and take whatever cover they can find for it")?
I've already posted in this thread when it started. It started with “blood libel” and morphed from there.
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Old 05-16-2019, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,364 posts, read 24,104,739 times
Reputation: 8869
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfa-ish View Post
Here is one, but quite tenuous, and doesn't explain the crusaders' hatred of Jews (or any prior to the rise of Nazism).

Enlightenment Europeans made a sharp distinction between semitic people (Jews and Muslims originating in the Middle East) and Indo-Europeans (bluntly, whites.) Look at today's linguistics. Never mind that Mediterranean cultures span both. Never mind that there were very extensive contacts via wars, trade and travel between the Middle East and Europe.

Nazis took that to the extreme and adopted Indo-European symbols like the Swastika and essentially either denied Christianity or tried to sever the roots of Christianity from Judaism. So it was essential to portray Semitics as the impure "them" vs the pure "us". And of course, Max Muller's theories of the origin of Aryans in Caucasus helped. Never mind the continuity in the cultures of supposedly pre-Aryan Iran/India/Central Asia and their post-Aryan versions. The main thing was, Greeks and Romans didn't learn anything from Jews, only the other way around.

Without blaming the victims, maybe the Jewish "aloofness" - stress on maintaining their own identity, food,language, culture, at all costs helped this separation too. Not that Jews shouldn't have, but that it definitely helped crystallize the us vs them attitudes.

I don't claim it's a great theory or even partially right, but at least it is one possibility.
It didn't start in the Middle East nor did it have anything to do with Muslims. The British and French brought it with them and passed to Arabs. Jews for centuries were known as the people of the book and were a protected class.
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Old 05-17-2019, 03:28 AM
 
Location: US
27,968 posts, read 15,053,894 times
Reputation: 1746
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
It didn't start in the Middle East nor did it have anything to do with Muslims. The British and French brought it with them and passed to Arabs. Jews for centuries were known as the people of the book and were a protected class.
“Golden Age of Jewry”...
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Old 06-03-2019, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Somerset, KY
320 posts, read 41,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB from NC View Post
You should probably ask the Christians. We're as dumbfounded by it as you are.
From a Christian perspective: I live in the Bible Belt. There is a lot of the "fundamentalist" version of Christianity around here. Most fundamentalists are not anti-semitic, in fact it's quite the opposite. They believe that God favors Jewish people above others.

I run into a little bit of the "Jews killed Jesus" attitude occasionally, but I personally don't view it that way. I view it as the individual religious leaders of the time who thought that someone needed to die because he dared to contradict their teachings. Many religions are consumed with this attitude.

The early Catholic church was certainly guilty of this as well, and the same spirit persists in many Christian denominations today. Of course, we don't execute people for contradicting us anymore. (We're far to dignified for that now. ) We just call them heretics and publicly humiliate and demonize them. And hold bitterness and resentment toward them for all of eternity. (The precise opposite of what our religion teaches us to do.)

I think that people who are racist will use any reason that they can think of at the time to justify their racism. The "Jews killed Jesus" thing is just the most convenient excuse available.
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Old 06-03-2019, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,364 posts, read 24,104,739 times
Reputation: 8869
Quote:
Originally Posted by hball72 View Post
From a Christian perspective: I live in the Bible Belt. There is a lot of the "fundamentalist" version of Christianity around here. Most fundamentalists are not anti-semitic, in fact it's quite the opposite. They believe that God favors Jewish people above others.

I run into a little bit of the "Jews killed Jesus" attitude occasionally, but I personally don't view it that way. I view it as the individual religious leaders of the time who thought that someone needed to die because he dared to contradict their teachings. Many religions are consumed with this attitude.

The early Catholic church was certainly guilty of this as well, and the same spirit persists in many Christian denominations today. Of course, we don't execute people for contradicting us anymore. (We're far to dignified for that now. ) We just call them heretics and publicly humiliate and demonize them. And hold bitterness and resentment toward them for all of eternity. (The precise opposite of what our religion teaches us to do.)

I think that people who are racist will use any reason that they can think of at the time to justify their racism. The "Jews killed Jesus" thing is just the most convenient excuse available.
Actually if JC existed, if the Romans had made the choice they would choose to kill JC as he disturbed the status quo and the thief didn't.
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:54 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
47 posts, read 16,384 times
Reputation: 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by hball72 View Post
I think that people who are racist will use any reason that they can think of at the time to justify their racism. The "Jews killed Jesus" thing is just the most convenient excuse available.
I think that the above, while a fragment of the answering post, is applicable to a wider subculture than just certain modern Christians. It may have generated there, but in modern times it is more adopted of a political stance than a religious one. I have known a lot of Christians in my life who did more than pay lip service to their teachings, and they were seriously good people. I get along with them very well.

I have a stalker on these forums that follows my posts around and prints bastardizations of my name designed to insult my Jewishness, and they are pretty much a perfect example of your statement: Not deeply religious, more ethnically or culturally motivated.

I really think that the anti-semitic waves of today are ethnic and nationalistic more than religious; but religion is among the justifications that they cling to. We as Jews have been categorized as "others", and it is easy to turn people on us when a lot of the work has already been done. I am also of the opinion that the Christian religion has been co-opted into the bastardized form so many modern nationalists and the like cling to as a means of validation and recruitment. Since religion still has respect, they will use it for their own ends.
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