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Old 05-24-2019, 08:23 AM
 
3,479 posts, read 678,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
I think he performed every taboo on us to demoralize us...
Also made the doomed men and women run around naked to humiliate them further before killing them.
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Old 05-24-2019, 08:27 AM
 
Location: NJ
1,396 posts, read 499,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob II View Post
The Torah does not specifically outlaw cremation.
The oral Torah does -- for source and discussion
https://www.chabad.org/library/artic...-Cremation.htm
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Old 05-24-2019, 08:29 AM
 
3,479 posts, read 678,208 times
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Originally Posted by Jacob II View Post
The Torah does not specifically outlaw cremation. Returning to dust would mean the absence of water. We will dry up, it could take years and decades in the case of burial, and hours with cremation. But they will both at some point in the future equal dust. There simply is no way to avoid it. Scientifically one equals the other in time. We are all about 94% water.

Here's the thing. . . When you counsel people in the profession you hear their concerns. I have heard both sides of the story. While some people voice concern about maggots eating through their mothers flesh. Coming in and out of her mouth, nose, eyes, ears, and other orifices. These people are genuinely haunted by these thoughts. The same applies to cremation and blazing fires, the body literally boiling. Some people have the tendency to overthink. And it is a more common concern than people think. They seem open to us to talk about these concerns, because they are emotionally fragile after a death in the family.

Many times people are just choosing the lesser of the two choices. Simply stated - Burn or Rot ? Pick one !

From my prospective I want them to possess all the positive mental health that can be achieved. In the case of a family being split in the decisions. It would be best if people come to accept either choice. The pain in these situations can be a tremendous burden on some people.

From our observation point on behalf of the industry. We don't think it's right or fair to put people on a guilt trip. They already have enough problems. Acceptance as a human condition has plagued man for thousands of years.

A person who is forced financially to cremate a loved one should not be made to feel they are directly violating some long held religious standard. People can only do the best they can do.
For observant Jews in NYC who feel they are forced to cremate for financial reasons and would prefer to follow traditional Jewish law, there is the Hebrew Free Burial Society. Not sure if there are similar societies in other areas (i would imagine so in cities where there is a decent Jewish population), but it's worth exploring for Jews facing financial hardship and feel they must cremate for monetary reasons.

https://www.hebrewfreeburial.org
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Old 05-24-2019, 08:34 AM
 
3,479 posts, read 678,208 times
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Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
For observant Jews in NYC who feel they are forced to cremate for financial reasons and would prefer to follow traditional Jewish law, there is the Hebrew Free Burial Society. Not sure if there are similar societies in other areas (i would imagine so in cities where there is a decent Jewish population), but it's worth exploring for Jews facing financial hardship and feel they must cremate for monetary reasons.

https://www.hebrewfreeburial.org
^^^ OK, now I am curious about free burials in the traditional Jewish form in other cities, and they are similar free burial programs all over the place. Please do not feel compelled to cremate for monetary reasons.
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Old 05-24-2019, 08:48 AM
 
623 posts, read 63,943 times
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Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
^^^ OK, now I am curious about free burials in the traditional Jewish form in other cities, and they are similar free burial programs all over the place. Please do not feel compelled to cremate for monetary reasons.
I mentioned the chevrei kadishei in Post #19 in this thread. I don't know whether there are still as many of them around as there once was. They also serve fellow Jews by helping to wash and prepare the body of the deceased for burial.

EDIT: Here's some more information I found:
https://www.jewish-funerals.org/inde...adisha-members

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Old 05-24-2019, 09:37 AM
 
Location: US
28,010 posts, read 15,092,150 times
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Originally Posted by rosends View Post
The oral Torah does -- for source and discussion
https://www.chabad.org/library/artic...-Cremation.htm
And how does the oral Torah reference the Written Torah, Rabbi?...
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Old 05-24-2019, 03:42 PM
 
814 posts, read 597,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
i would imagine so in cities where there is a decent Jewish population
Hmmm, are there cities with indecent Jewish populations and if so, how can I befriend them?
Sorry, couldn't resist.
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Old 05-24-2019, 03:48 PM
 
814 posts, read 597,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
The oral Torah does -- for source and discussion
https://www.chabad.org/library/artic...-Cremation.htm
From the link:

"Additionally, Man was created in "G‑d's image and likeness."18 Any violation of the human body is considered, therefore, to be a violation of G‑d Himself.19

This general principle and law governs many of our laws, like those prohibiting self-mutilation20 or tattoos,21"

And yet circumcision is a required ritual for men? Not a violation of the intact human body?
God's ways are indeed mysterious.
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Old 05-24-2019, 03:50 PM
 
623 posts, read 63,943 times
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Originally Posted by cfa-ish View Post
Hmmm, are there cities with indecent Jewish populations and if so, how can I befriend them?

I bet jewish there were!
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Old 05-25-2019, 06:54 PM
 
Location: U.S.A
58 posts, read 7,665 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfa-ish View Post
From the link:

"Additionally, Man was created in "G‑d's image and likeness."18 Any violation of the human body is considered, therefore, to be a violation of G‑d Himself.19

This general principle and law governs many of our laws, like those prohibiting self-mutilation20 or tattoos,21"

And yet circumcision is a required ritual for men? Not a violation of the intact human body?
God's ways are indeed mysterious.
The third commandment: Do not take G-d's name in vain . . . But more relative in Hebrew would mean to not carry G-d's name in vain. This would include finding an obscure biblical narrative to qualify a given response. It's not unusual for the three major denominations to be in debate. But when we take it on ourselves to say " My Voice - Can interpret fully the will of the Lord " This is something that some Jews, Christians, and Muslims do without reservation. The Bible also speaks of the pain a Woman goes though in childbirth. But hospitals are quick to remedy that situation. Does that mean they are indifferent to G-d ? No. . .They are simply helping one of G-d's creatures. That is something we are all in a way commanded to do.

In addition to funeral homes providing general services of burial and cremation. Some provide the service of corneal procurement centers. It's the removal of the cornea from the eyes of the deceased if they meet the time frame to be transplanted into a another living eye. A lot of mutilated tissue, but that is true with all organ transplants. Those types of mutilations serve a larger purpose.

Holy Writings are ancient. They did not do organ transplants, or harness accelerated temperatures. We could easily find biblical sources to not favor these inventions. But we don't get to pick and choose inventions of the future. Overtime it comes to us as a gift, sometimes as a curse. A pesticide deemed as a remarkable tool that eventually only causes cancer, and even death, a smartphone that can transmit our location for a desperately needed ambulance. These future inventions will eventually reveal if they are helping or harming.

Cremation causes no more mutilation than burial. It is an accelerated concept of ashes to ashes. I have seen bodies setting outside and even buried for several days and weeks. I can honestly say there is nothing to compare to the stench of human tissue. A bloated gaseous tissue mass of a person turning from green to black. The smell so horrible that it permeates the clothing and even the hair of those that go near. It is worse than any other animal by far. And the appearance is nothing short of ghastly seeing tens of thousands of worms in a total feeding frenzy. If setting in water, particularly in sea water it is twice as bad. The eaten away tissue by all manner of sea life. A person in this state is also an extreme health hazard to the living.

The modern day state of the art ' Retort ' that can reach to 2000 degrees Fahrenheit, and can accomplish in 2 hours what will take the earth many years. Eventually both rendering the exact same results. There are several strains of plague and some other diseases that occasionally pop-up from time to time. Diseased human remains that have been buried for over a hundred years that still have the capacity to transmit a life threatening illness. In the case of the great plagues of Europe such as the black plague. It was absolutely linked to buried human remains. There is no threat of disease from cremains. It is a sterile safe environment.

In the next 365 days the U.S. death toll will be about 3 million people. It would take a city almost the size of Las Vegas, NV to accommodate the land mass needed for burial. So what about 10, 20, or 50 years from now. It's predictable that ground burials will be prohibited for the general public.
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