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Old 05-25-2019, 08:31 PM
 
Location: NJ
1,395 posts, read 498,734 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfa-ish View Post
From the link:

"Additionally, Man was created in "G‑d's image and likeness."18 Any violation of the human body is considered, therefore, to be a violation of G‑d Himself.19

This general principle and law governs many of our laws, like those prohibiting self-mutilation20 or tattoos,21"

And yet circumcision is a required ritual for men? Not a violation of the intact human body?
God's ways are indeed mysterious.
There are many situations in Jewish law where there is a general law to which we are bound and then there are required exceptions. We are not to waste food and yet we burn leaven before Passover. We cannot create a wound on the Sabbath but a circumcision on the Sabbath is required if that is the 8th day. Additionally, there are no laws against things like earrings which (to my mind) are also mutilations of the body.
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Old 05-26-2019, 01:58 AM
 
615 posts, read 63,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
There are many situations in Jewish law where there is a general law to which we are bound and then there are required exceptions. We are not to waste food and yet we burn leaven before Passover. We cannot create a wound on the Sabbath but a circumcision on the Sabbath is required if that is the 8th day. Additionally, there are no laws against things like earrings which (to my mind) are also mutilations of the body.
Rabbi, I thought that body piercing was as forbidden as tattoos? Are pierced ears exempt then? And, if so, is that because the ancient Hebrews used to pierce the ears of slaves who voluntarily chose to remain in servitude even after the time had come when they were supposed to be set free?

I admit that my own ears are pierced, but I'm only a slave to my dog.
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Old 05-26-2019, 05:46 AM
 
Location: NJ
1,395 posts, read 498,734 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork View Post
Rabbi, I thought that body piercing was as forbidden as tattoos? Are pierced ears exempt then? And, if so, is that because the ancient Hebrews used to pierce the ears of slaves who voluntarily chose to remain in servitude even after the time had come when they were supposed to be set free?

I admit that my own ears are pierced, but I'm only a slave to my dog.
I researched ear piercings many years ago when my kids asked for them. I was dead set against them because, it seemed to me, that they were a problematic body modification. But hard as I looked, I couldn't find any black letter law or response which addressed it. I eventually found one anecdote about some big name rabbi whose kids had ear piercings. So I chose to lose that argument. In the torah, there are mentions of "nezem" which I learned meant a nose piercing, along with earrings. As for the slave, I don't know if I would call that a piercing per se. They get their ear punched with a sharp object but the goal is not to maintain a hole or insert nice jewelry there.


Body piercings I know nothing about. So far, the kids haven't asked and I'm not volunteering anything.
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Old 05-26-2019, 05:59 AM
 
3,471 posts, read 672,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob II View Post
The third commandment: Do not take G-d's name in vain . . . But more relative in Hebrew would mean to not carry G-d's name in vain. This would include finding an obscure biblical narrative to qualify a given response. It's not unusual for the three major denominations to be in debate. But when we take it on ourselves to say " My Voice - Can interpret fully the will of the Lord " This is something that some Jews, Christians, and Muslims do without reservation. The Bible also speaks of the pain a Woman goes though in childbirth. But hospitals are quick to remedy that situation. Does that mean they are indifferent to G-d ? No. . .They are simply helping one of G-d's creatures. That is something we are all in a way commanded to do.

In addition to funeral homes providing general services of burial and cremation. Some provide the service of corneal procurement centers. It's the removal of the cornea from the eyes of the deceased if they meet the time frame to be transplanted into a another living eye. A lot of mutilated tissue, but that is true with all organ transplants. Those types of mutilations serve a larger purpose.

Holy Writings are ancient. They did not do organ transplants, or harness accelerated temperatures. We could easily find biblical sources to not favor these inventions. But we don't get to pick and choose inventions of the future. Overtime it comes to us as a gift, sometimes as a curse. A pesticide deemed as a remarkable tool that eventually only causes cancer, and even death, a smartphone that can transmit our location for a desperately needed ambulance. These future inventions will eventually reveal if they are helping or harming.

Cremation causes no more mutilation than burial. It is an accelerated concept of ashes to ashes. I have seen bodies setting outside and even buried for several days and weeks. I can honestly say there is nothing to compare to the stench of human tissue. A bloated gaseous tissue mass of a person turning from green to black. The smell so horrible that it permeates the clothing and even the hair of those that go near. It is worse than any other animal by far. And the appearance is nothing short of ghastly seeing tens of thousands of worms in a total feeding frenzy. If setting in water, particularly in sea water it is twice as bad. The eaten away tissue by all manner of sea life. A person in this state is also an extreme health hazard to the living.

The modern day state of the art ' Retort ' that can reach to 2000 degrees Fahrenheit, and can accomplish in 2 hours what will take the earth many years. Eventually both rendering the exact same results. There are several strains of plague and some other diseases that occasionally pop-up from time to time. Diseased human remains that have been buried for over a hundred years that still have the capacity to transmit a life threatening illness. In the case of the great plagues of Europe such as the black plague. It was absolutely linked to buried human remains. There is no threat of disease from cremains. It is a sterile safe environment.

In the next 365 days the U.S. death toll will be about 3 million people. It would take a city almost the size of Las Vegas, NV to accommodate the land mass needed for burial. So what about 10, 20, or 50 years from now. It's predictable that ground burials will be prohibited for the general public.
It sounds as though you are pro-cremation. I certainly hope you're not encouraging Jewish families who could well afford to bury their loved ones in traditional Jewish law to instead opt for cremation.
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Old 05-26-2019, 06:46 AM
 
615 posts, read 63,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
I researched ear piercings many years ago when my kids asked for them. I was dead set against them because, it seemed to me, that they were a problematic body modification. But hard as I looked, I couldn't find any black letter law or response which addressed it. I eventually found one anecdote about some big name rabbi whose kids had ear piercings. So I chose to lose that argument. In the torah, there are mentions of "nezem" which I learned meant a nose piercing, along with earrings. As for the slave, I don't know if I would call that a piercing per se. They get their ear punched with a sharp object but the goal is not to maintain a hole or insert nice jewelry there.


Body piercings I know nothing about. So far, the kids haven't asked and I'm not volunteering anything.

Do I presume correctly that it's your daughters who won the ear-piercing argument? Any objection to a son getting an ear-piercing?
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Old 05-26-2019, 07:02 AM
 
Location: NJ
1,395 posts, read 498,734 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork View Post
Do I presume correctly that it's your daughters who won the ear-piercing argument? Any objection to a son getting an ear-piercing?
My daughters won, yes. And one eventually had a nose piercing (though I think she isn't happy with it). I don't have sons so I never had to fight that fight.
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Old 05-26-2019, 07:25 AM
 
615 posts, read 63,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
My daughters won, yes. And one eventually had a nose piercing (though I think she isn't happy with it). I don't have sons so I never had to fight that fight.

You sound like a good dad.
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Old 05-26-2019, 09:21 AM
 
Location: U.S.A
58 posts, read 7,546 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
It sounds as though you are pro-cremation. I certainly hope you're not encouraging Jewish families who could well afford to bury their loved ones in traditional Jewish law to instead opt for cremation.
To answer your question: I don't encourage anything, I advocate free will regardless of financial status. But when that free will starts to emulate Chasid Shoteh, then it becomes a duty to help people make a more enlightened decision based on basic need rather than want. I certainly would not advocate a family going into years of debt to bury a loved one.

I do not see cremation as a violation of any Jewish Law. It's an excellent alternative both financially, and psychologically.

There are Jewish sources that point to it being a violation, and other Jewish sources pointing to it as a non-Violation.
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Old 05-26-2019, 03:21 PM
 
615 posts, read 63,111 times
Reputation: 376
Here is a gentle, non-judgmental video from BimBam, titled: "Burial vs. Cremation: A Jewish Perspective."

It clearly presents the Jewish perspective on the subject, but also takes into account people's various reasons for the choices they may make.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ptWDigjFO8

Quote:
BimBam demystifies Judaism with fresh and inspirational videos accessible to learners of all ages. We're a nonprofit studio dedicated to helping anyone who's curious explore Jewish texts, rituals, holidays and the arts. Learn more about what we do at www.BimBam.com
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Old 05-26-2019, 06:28 PM
 
3,964 posts, read 3,348,129 times
Reputation: 1246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob II View Post

I do not see cremation as a violation of any Jewish Law. It's an excellent alternative both financially, and psychologically.

There are Jewish sources that point to it being a violation, and other Jewish sources pointing to it as a non-Violation.
There are no such credible sources saying itís permissible. At least not in the Torah world. Feel free to show a source and prove me wrong.
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