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Old 05-26-2019, 07:29 PM
 
Location: U.S.A
52 posts, read 6,201 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
There are no such credible sources saying it’s permissible. At least not in the Torah world. Feel free to show a source and prove me wrong.
There is no clear-cut prohibition of cremation in the halachic literature. There is no specific wording that specifically outlaws cremation.

It's like saying a heart transplant is prohibited, because there is no mention of it in the Torah.

Therefore: There are no such credible sources saying a heart transplant is permissible. At least not in the Torah world. Feel free to show a source and prove me wrong.

Modern day cremation chambers were not invented until 1873. . . It's a science like organ transplant. Both these sciences will not be found in Torah. Although fair to mention that indigenous people ( Indians ) did burning in the form of funeral pyres for centuries. It's not exactly the same science as modern day cremation.

And I mention earth burial is not just digging a ditch and covering it with dirt. No more than just setting a person on fire is considered cremation. Both must have an etiquette of human dignity attached to be properly named ' Burial' - ' Cremation '
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Old 05-26-2019, 07:53 PM
 
3,941 posts, read 3,337,100 times
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Jacob, itís in the Gamara in Sanhedrin and codified in the Shulchan Aruch. If youíre not holding by those sources, then you are outside of the Torah world. Reform and Conservative people who write things down are not a source.
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Old 05-26-2019, 07:59 PM
 
Location: US
27,953 posts, read 15,035,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
Jacob, itís in the Gamara in Sanhedrin and codified in the Shulchan Aruch. If youíre not holding by those sources, then you are outside of the Torah world. Reform and Conservative people who write things down are not a source.
Since we are created in HaShemís image, itís like cremating HaShem...
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Old 05-26-2019, 08:18 PM
 
Location: U.S.A
52 posts, read 6,201 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
Jacob, itís in the Gamara in Sanhedrin and codified in the Shulchan Aruch. If youíre not holding by those sources, then you are outside of the Torah world. Reform and Conservative people who write things down are not a source.

I study the ' Gemara ', and many other sources as well. Maybe you could copy and paste one single specific source you found.
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Old 05-27-2019, 05:41 AM
 
Location: US
27,953 posts, read 15,035,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob II View Post
I study the ' Gemara ', and many other sources as well. Maybe you could copy and paste one single specific source you found.
If one follows the Torah of HaShem then cremation is not an option...
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Old 05-27-2019, 07:10 AM
 
Location: NJ
1,377 posts, read 493,645 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob II View Post
I study the ' Gemara ', and many other sources as well. Maybe you could copy and paste one single specific source you found.
can we start with this
כל הנקברין לא ישרפו

Do you need a source for it? Just let me know.

Then move to the Yerushalmi, Ketuvot 61b (though in some printed editions, 54a) and its assumption about burning (especially following the statement above about burying against someone's wishes) and pay attention to the last statement in the Korban Ha'eidah -- if someone asks to be burned, we don't do it.

There is a positive mitzvah to bury which the Rambam cites (Hil Sanhedrin 15:8) even for those killed by judicial decree (even by "burning").

This site mentions the above two sources and gives others.

https://ohr.edu/1298
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Old 05-27-2019, 07:21 AM
 
3,316 posts, read 640,659 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
can we start with this
כל הנקברין לא ישרפו

Do you need a source for it? Just let me know.

Then move to the Yerushalmi, Ketuvot 61b (though in some printed editions, 54a) and its assumption about burning (especially following the statement above about burying against someone's wishes) and pay attention to the last statement in the Korban Ha'eidah -- if someone asks to be burned, we don't do it.

There is a positive mitzvah to bury.

This site mentions the above two sources and gives others.

https://ohr.edu/1298
Thank you for this.

What's bothering me with Jacob's comments is that he is saying that cremation is essentially the same as burial since the end result - dust - will be the same, and that he is presenting cremation as a fully sanctioned and more "economical" method of disposal when it is clearly against Jewish law.

I already mentioned the Hebrew Burial Society which will provide for traditional Jewish burial for any Jew whose family cannot afford it (and would otherwise be talked into cremation as the only viable option).

Additionally, I am positive that in the observant community, if a Jewish family could not afford to bury their loved one in accordance with Jewish law, the community would pitch in to provide it. I saw this with my own father, whose cousin died without a penny to her name, and he paid for the burial and plot in full.
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Old 05-27-2019, 07:33 AM
 
Location: NJ
1,377 posts, read 493,645 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
Thank you for this.

What's bothering me with Jacob's comments is that he is saying that cremation is essentially the same as burial since the end result - dust - will be the same, and that he is presenting cremation as a fully sanctioned and more "economical" method of disposal when it is clearly against Jewish law.

I already mentioned the Hebrew Burial Society which will provide for traditional Jewish burial for any Jew whose family cannot afford it (and would otherwise be talked into cremation as the only viable option).

Additionally, I am positive that in the observant community, if a Jewish family could not afford to bury their loved one in accordance with Jewish law, the community would pitch in to provide it. I saw this with my own father, whose cousin died without a penny to her name, and he paid for the burial and plot in full.
As a side note, while both might end in "dust" the 2 dusts would have different statuses in terms of holiness. So the end result would, in a spiritual sense, NOT be the same.
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Old 05-27-2019, 07:47 AM
 
557 posts, read 52,589 times
Reputation: 350
I found this video on how the body is prepared for a Jewish burial, which I found fascinating. I wonder how many funeral homes provide services such as those performed by the burial societies?

@Jacob: Did your funeral home provide space for burial societies to work, for those Jews who chose Jewish burial? I imagine they would need to perform these duties nowadays in either a funeral home or a hospital?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4bWpbvhHXw
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Old 05-27-2019, 09:54 AM
 
3,941 posts, read 3,337,100 times
Reputation: 1245
If one cremates, it destroys the ďluzĒ bone in the back of the neck, from where Chazal tells us we will be resurrected at techias hameisim. No luz = no resurrection = death is final = heretical viewpoint to the Torah.
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