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Old 05-31-2019, 07:08 PM
 
16 posts, read 1,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shalhevet View Post
Xians need Judaism as a basis for their religion. If Judaism is false, then their entire system fails. Judaism on the other hand does NOT need xianity, we stand perfectly well alone. WHY then do they spend so much time trying to convince themselves (and us) that we don't know the meaning of our prophecies, that we don't understand our Holy books and generally try to rewrite everything we already know is true?

xian: The "Old Testament" says this, proving xianity!

Jew: Actually, no it doesn't. Read this, look here and oh, by the way, that word means something else in Hebrew and was mistranslated.

xian: WRONG! If all that is true, then my faith system falls apart, so you are WRONG! MISLEAD! LIED TO!

Jew: *rolls eyes so hard they may get stuck that way*

~Yes, I realize I have answered my own question, but it is irritating to me. Lets call it a vent.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, and I mean no offense, but you sound like a former messianic xian. I say that because I am a former messianic xian. And that's where I really learned about Judaism. If not for that experience, I wouldn't be where I am now (a soon to be "formal" Jewish convert. I say formal because I believe the true conversion takes place in the mind and heart. That must happen before one can ever get to a mikvah).

Xians look at the Tanakh through the lense of the NT. The self appointed apostle, Paul, took many things from the Jewish bible out of context (I believe deliberately) and most xians don't bother to look up the original text.

Xians also don't think to compare the gospels side by side. Instead, they're taught to find passages from different books that agree with each other. This proves various teachings for them. They aren't taught to compare and contrast - at least in my experience.

And, even if the did compare and contrast, they would find a mental way around the problems because they have to. They can't comprehend that xianity is a false religion, because if it is, then where does that leave mankind? Doomed - an unthinkable fate!

These days many xians don't even go by their own new testament. They go by their own feelings, or by the feelings of others. They call this the Holy spirit. And once you go outside the Bible, it doesn't matter what the text says.

After I left xianity and fully embraced Judaism, my mom - who is a bible thumping, "spirit filled" xian - had a very difficult time with it. So, I sat down with her one day and showed her just one of Paul's changes in the NT, taken from the Jewish Bible. And I saw the light come on for her.

She got this expession I can't even describe. She got it. But then, she got angry! She pushed the Bible (it was her own Bible!) across the table and said, "I can't do this anymore." It was just too terrifying for her.

I understand. I had studied for a long time, and I was pretty sure that the claims of xianity were false. But I was scared. I was on the fence. If I left xianity, and it was false, I was doing a good thing in the eyse of HaShem. But, if xianity were true, then I'd be doomed for all eternity. I had to choose carefully.

When the day came that I had to let go of xianity, I felt like I was floating in space without a tether to earth. It was a very scary feeling. I felt terrified. What would happen to me now?

And then I remembered, HaShem is still in control! I have HaShem. I don't need any other. After that I was fine.

My terror only lasted a few moments, but it was very real. So when xians do see contradictions in their NT, or between the NT and the Tanakh, many of them have to find a mental work-a-round because it's unthinkable to them that the NT could be wrong.
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Old 06-01-2019, 12:12 AM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,801 posts, read 4,968,434 times
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It's just that the majority of people are simply not interested, and then you run across an individual who believes what he reads. Most Christians just aren't interested in Study, Christianity could easily go back to Judaism if a third of people had passion enough to study.

A believer like David who loves the Torah like David loved the word of God, he literally believes that his every waking thought should be on Torah.

This person finds a secret language that very few Gentiles or Jews know.

It seems like people choose their pre concieved beliefs over what God has done and ordained.

Christians everywhere speak of being in a covenant only made for Ephraim and Judah, and it is so bizarre because they are neither Ephraim or Judah.

Christianity was a legal sect of Judaism, but that only lasted 100 years.

There is only God's religion, and God is not in the least confused about what he ordained as his own peculiar religion for his crazy peculiar people, a people knowing that the world will hate them IF they continue to follow what God has ordained.

There is something in a stubborn people, a spirit of not one give a damns what other people think.

They care about what God thinks, and what God created to follow, silly Jews, thousands of years of persecution just because they are so stubborn, all they have to do is assimilate.

Why wont those Jews just become Gentiles to keep the holy days all nations keep?

STUBBORN.

Let the whole world be wrong, and let the followers of God be hated and persecuted for following God.

What an opportunity.

Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 06-01-2019 at 12:22 AM..
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Old 06-01-2019, 04:31 AM
 
576 posts, read 57,385 times
Reputation: 368
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorahIsTimeless View Post
And, even if the did compare and contrast, they would find a mental way around the problems because they have to. They can't comprehend that xianity is a false religion, because if it is, then where does that leave mankind? Doomed - an unthinkable fate!

I don't think it behooves us as Jews to generalize others in this way.

Additionally, Christianity is a false religion to those who are not Christian. It is a right religion for Christians.

(Regrettably posting on Shabbat, because some things cannot be left unsaid for too long.)



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Old 06-03-2019, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,362 posts, read 24,099,835 times
Reputation: 8864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
This only applies to Christians for whom the Bible is seen as the literal Word of God.

You are surely aware (I know that Richard1965 is because he hangs out in Christianity all the time ) that there are Christians who know about the mis-translations/mis-interpretations made in an attempt to cut the foot to fit the shoe. We acknowledge and understand that it was done, and we aren't going to argue about it because it doesn't change our spiritual outlook.
Ask Richard (and a few other people on CD) how many threads, in the Christianity forum, he had me jump into just to explain Satan and that it's not what they were brought up to think it means. It's not some small group, it's all. There are numerous mis-translations/mis-interpretations and there are numerous threads that discuss it only to be told us the Yehudim are wrong.
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Old 06-04-2019, 04:40 AM
 
576 posts, read 57,385 times
Reputation: 368
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Ask Richard (and a few other people on CD) how many threads, in the Christianity forum, he had me jump into just to explain Satan and that it's not what they were brought up to think it means. It's not some small group, it's all. There are numerous mis-translations/mis-interpretations and there are numerous threads that discuss it only to be told us the Yehudim are wrong.

I think that's more a reflection of the sort of "scholarship" one finds on most online forums and social media these days, than anything else. It's not a phenomenon that's exclusive to those who also happen to come from a Christian background. You may see more of it over in the Christian forum, because the majority of people in the U.S. tend to identify themselves as Christians.
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:09 AM
 
81 posts, read 14,592 times
Reputation: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorahIsTimeless View Post
Forgive me if I'm wrong, and I mean no offense, but you sound like a former messianic xian.
I am curious why you say this. While I know some people involved in the Messy movement, I was Agnostic prior to my conversion, raised in a Methodist household.
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,801 posts, read 4,968,434 times
Reputation: 1502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork View Post
I think that's more a reflection of the sort of "scholarship" one finds on most online forums and social media these days, than anything else. It's not a phenomenon that's exclusive to those who also happen to come from a Christian background. You may see more of it over in the Christian forum, because the majority of people in the U.S. tend to identify themselves as Christians.
Christians shun everything of Judaism but they are reading a book based on Judaism, an example of this speaks about a lawless son of perdition being revealed, and this son of perdition is just the evil inclination to sin in all people, but the Christian thinks it is a Jewish anti Christ, and they think the Jews are going to accept a lawless Messiah to then sit on his throne in a newly made temple.

Christians take Judaism and they try and fit their false ideas of concepts and idioms into Judaism and it just wont work because Christianity outlawed the worship system of God and they just don't pick up on the concepts and idioms that stem from Judaism.

Like that thing in Revelation being sealed in your forehead and right hand, Christians think this is something new and so they guess what it means, but being sealed in one's forehead and right hand is a matter of the law and God's promise to people who keep his Sabbaths and his feasts.

The ones who keep the Sabbaths and feasts of Babylon are sealed with Babylon while the ones who keep the Sabbaths and feasts of Judaism are sealed with Jerusalem.

All those scriptures of hell are speaking of the outer court of Gentiles called the outer court of darkness where the lawless are sent.
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Old 06-04-2019, 10:02 AM
 
576 posts, read 57,385 times
Reputation: 368
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
Christians shun everything of Judaism but they are reading a book based on Judaism, an example of this speaks about a lawless son of perdition being revealed, and this son of perdition is just the evil inclination to sin in all people, but the Christian thinks it is a Jewish anti Christ, and they think the Jews are going to accept a lawless Messiah to then sit on his throne in a newly made temple.

Christians take Judaism and they try and fit their false ideas of concepts and idioms into Judaism and it just wont work because Christianity outlawed the worship system of God and they just don't pick up on the concepts and idioms that stem from Judaism.

Like that thing in Revelation being sealed in your forehead and right hand, Christians think this is something new and so they guess what it means, but being sealed in one's forehead and right hand is a matter of the law and God's promise to people who keep his Sabbaths and his feasts.

The ones who keep the Sabbaths and feasts of Babylon are sealed with Babylon while the ones who keep the Sabbaths and feasts of Judaism are sealed with Jerusalem.

All those scriptures of hell are speaking of the outer court of Gentiles called the outer court of darkness where the lawless are sent.

"Jews do this and Jews do that. Jews think this way and Jews think that way. I know all about the Jews, they are all alike."

I've heard stuff like this all my life. This is why I don't care to hear it anymore about ANYONE, Jewish or not.
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Old 06-04-2019, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,051 posts, read 54,552,165 times
Reputation: 66393
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Ask Richard (and a few other people on CD) how many threads, in the Christianity forum, he had me jump into just to explain Satan and that it's not what they were brought up to think it means. It's not some small group, it's all. There are numerous mis-translations/mis-interpretations and there are numerous threads that discuss it only to be told us the Yehudim are wrong.
I'm telling you it's NOT "all". Are you telling me I don't know what I know, Pru?

Yes, I agree, the morphing of Satan from what he is in Judaism into the personification of evil is widely unknown in much of Christianity. I did not know myself that Satan was different in Judaism from Christianity until well into adulthood when, as I've mentioned on here a number of times before, I was in online conversations with Jewish women. How would it be possible for someone to know that unless they had a serious conversation with an actual Jew about the subject?

And yup, there are plenty of Christians who are still going to tell you that you are wrong about your own religion. Just as there are people on this thread telling Christians that they are wrong about their own religion, when in reality, they are wrong about Judaism.

My question is: Instead of working so hard to widen the gap, why not work a bit to build a bridge through education and understanding? (Not meaning YOU personally, in general.) Sure, sometimes it's not going to have any effect. But I am not the only Christian who is interesting in learning where the errors are that we were taught were truth.
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Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 06-04-2019 at 01:14 PM..
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Old 06-04-2019, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,051 posts, read 54,552,165 times
Reputation: 66393
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork View Post
"Jews do this and Jews do that. Jews think this way and Jews think that way. I know all about the Jews, they are all alike."

I've heard stuff like this all my life. This is why I don't care to hear it anymore about ANYONE, Jewish or not.
Similarly, it's a favorite pastime (by many non-Christians) to attribute to all Christians the characteristics of the conservative/fundamentalist Christian types.
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