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Old Yesterday, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,364 posts, read 24,099,835 times
Reputation: 8869

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
TFF, donít make this forum a ghost town like before...I enjoy the interactions with fellow Jews...We all learn something from each other...
You can't put the entire blame on him. This sub-forum never had more than a dozen people here at a time. The issues occurred when the scales had too many people tilting the scale towards one camp of Judaism. Our largest issues weren't really actually single posters, but mostly Baal Tshuva's stating everyone was wrong while they were the only correct ones. If you think back enough years, the only times this sub-forum was actually lively where people sat back with their popcorn was when heavily I (past FFB, now OTD) went up against the BT's. Without the two of us, it was pretty much a ghost town most of the time. That being said, the extremist POV is back and for the most part I'm now sitting back and eating the popcorn watching the new generation of people in this sub-forum to see how they work it out.

FFB = Frum, Very Religious.

OTD = Not Frum

 
Old Yesterday, 07:48 PM
 
3,362 posts, read 649,632 times
Reputation: 2357
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
It was very interesting read.
A hypothetical situation then.
Lord forbid, but you ended on an island that has no rabbi or temple. Has some tribe leaving there, way far far away from anything remotely similar to your faith. Of course, no internet. No cell phone connection. You are back to your true self and humans, different from you religiously and culturally.

Does that actually mean that you absolutely lost your moral compass as there is no one to go and ask what to do?

I was totally surprised to read through posts of apparently grown up men and women, who appear to be absolutely reliant on someone else's opinion. It was sort of scary, really. I didn't expect such level of infantility.
It would seem that those of us who have had an even moderately religious upbringing would know enough about Judaism's teachings that it isn't necessary to ask a rabbi for guidance in most instances. For example, one Yom Kippur around 30 years ago, I awoke with a badly infected area near my eye, and chills. I didn't need to call the rabbi (who could call on Yom Kippur, anyway?) as to whether I should go to the doctor or to services, I made a decision on my own: I went to the doctor. When the doctor said near the eye could be very serious and I needed to start a heavy-duty antibiotic then - not after sunset - I took it, with water.

I felt terrible that I had to break my fast, but not guilty about it. There was no question that my health could be at serious risk. I made the right decision, knowing what I do about Judaism's values. Life above all. Who needs to ask a rabbi?
 
Old Today, 01:10 AM
 
Location: US
27,963 posts, read 15,050,737 times
Reputation: 1741
Quote:
Originally Posted by ben Shunamit View Post
I have not seen constant haranguing from TFF. I'm not sure I've seen even occasional haranguing from him. He expresses his opinion, and implicitly or explicitly represents it as orthodox. Others are free to express their opinions, often almost diametrically opposed to TFF's.

That's all OK. What is NOT OK is singling TFF out as being the only person on this forum who thinks his own opinion is right. Virtually everyone here thinks his or her own opinion is the right one. Many are wrong, but that's OK.

I recommend that you NOT continue to speak out against TFF. Argue the point, not the person.
Iíve been on here since 2008, so, there ya go...Iíve seen this place turn into a ghost town and know why...Youíve only been here since 2017...
 
Old Today, 01:17 AM
 
Location: US
27,963 posts, read 15,050,737 times
Reputation: 1741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork View Post
Maybe you don't want to see it.



I'm not talking about what anyone thinks on this forum. I am talking about how one engages another in discussion on this forum. Here is an example of one of the things I am talking about:



Was it really necessary to imply that Jews who follow their doctors' advice do so because they somehow hold their rabbis (and ultimately, their faith) in low esteem?

Was it really necessary to make such a smug comment to another Jew on this forum, not knowing anything about that person's particular medical history and whether or not one's words might be cruel?

I hope the irony of such an exchange in a topic on MORALITY has not entirely escaped you.
I think this one by TFF was even worse:

Quote:
As you know, it’s forbidden for Torah Observant Jews to step foot in a R/C shul during tefilla, and I have blotted out all memories of what it was like when I was a kid in those shuls. So I find it interesting about the way these other Jewish and Jew”ish” Jews do their thing. - http://www.city-data.com/forum/55636457-post25.html
 
Old Today, 01:29 AM
 
Location: US
27,963 posts, read 15,050,737 times
Reputation: 1741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
You can't put the entire blame on him. This sub-forum never had more than a dozen people here at a time. The issues occurred when the scales had too many people tilting the scale towards one camp of Judaism. Our largest issues weren't really actually single posters, but mostly Baal Tshuva's stating everyone was wrong while they were the only correct ones. If you think back enough years, the only times this sub-forum was actually lively where people sat back with their popcorn was when heavily I (past FFB, now OTD) went up against the BT's. Without the two of us, it was pretty much a ghost town most of the time. That being said, the extremist POV is back and for the most part I'm now sitting back and eating the popcorn watching the new generation of people in this sub-forum to see how they work it out.

FFB = Frum, Very Religious.

OTD = Not Frum
I get your point, Pruzh, but he could be less obnoxious in stating his views, try stating them in a more constructive way...I remember when a lot of folks used to post here and then they stopped...I think people have a tendency to just go away after being hit hard like Iíve seen...And thatís just not good for anyone...
 
Old Today, 04:48 AM
 
580 posts, read 57,385 times
Reputation: 368
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
I think this one by TFF was even worse:

Yes, I didn't miss his snide crack about "Jew'ish' Jews." While it's true that Orthodox rabbis tell their congregants not to participate in Reform or Conservative services, it is meant to draw a line between what the Orthodox practice and what the R/C practice. It's not because non-Orthodox Jews are not "real Jews" (although there are ultra-Orthodox who undoubtedly may think that way).

The point is that this is a public forum where all Jews (and friends of Jews) should be welcome. Differences should be put aside in the interest of civil discussion and congenial interaction with others. It is not acceptable to continually berate others here regarding how they observe their faith.
 
Old Today, 05:00 AM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,364 posts, read 24,099,835 times
Reputation: 8869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
I get your point, Pruzh, but he could be less obnoxious in stating his views, try stating them in a more constructive way...I remember when a lot of folks used to post here and then they stopped...I think people have a tendency to just go away after being hit hard like Iíve seen...And thatís just not good for anyone...
He can't be less than he is. I warned y'all that this was coming when he decided to be the Jew is charge of the "Ask a Jew' thread without any of the religious education or a library in his own home of texts. He was learning once a week and thought he was as authority on the Torah. He kept on saying he was Torah Observant, when in reality he was Oral Torah Observant and that the Torah could never stand on it's own and was thus worthless. He is a US extremist and one simply has to except his views as being his views and they are not going to change. The only way for 99% of this sub to understand his mindset is to travel to Israel and see people like him in action. Other than that walk away and treat his commentary as background noise. Both of us know he has a agenda each time he creates a thread. As least I know to wait until his true intent comes out, yet you continue to feed the fire. You have read and know more than he does, yet you allow his parroting of someone else to take the lead. It's time to stop and let these new posters take over the reigns.
 
Old Today, 05:23 AM
 
3,962 posts, read 3,341,414 times
Reputation: 1246
Wishing you all a good Shabbos. Sorry youíre all feeling so out of sorts. It can be hard to hear what you donít want to hear. But I definitely would appreciate it if you would refrain from all the personal attacks on me. I think if you were to do a proper accounting, you would see I frequently talk about what is emes, but I do not attack personally like many of you have done with me. Youíre all better than that. I hope you come to your senses.
 
Old Today, 05:31 AM
 
3,962 posts, read 3,341,414 times
Reputation: 1246
I think youíll see my method is to state my POV on a Torah subject. Then what follows is some of you who are not following a Torah way process that information by turning the mirror on yourself. As intended. But letís be clear. You are attacking yourselves then projecting that upon the messenger of the truth youíve just heard. Maybe a better request is to ask you all to stop being so hard on yourselves. Observance is a journey. Only those who have allowed themselves to be ďclosed offĒ to Torah growth suffer with this approach.

And for the millionth time: being less observant does not make you less Jewish. It just represents an opportunity.
 
Old Today, 05:36 AM
 
3,362 posts, read 649,632 times
Reputation: 2357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork View Post
Yes, I didn't miss his snide crack about "Jew'ish' Jews." While it's true that Orthodox rabbis tell their congregants not to participate in Reform or Conservative services, it is meant to draw a line between what the Orthodox practice and what the R/C practice. It's not because non-Orthodox Jews are not "real Jews" (although there are ultra-Orthodox who undoubtedly may think that way).

The point is that this is a public forum where all Jews (and friends of Jews) should be welcome. Differences should be put aside in the interest of civil discussion and congenial interaction with others. It is not acceptable to continually berate others here regarding how they observe their faith.
Rachel, I agree with you. I've noted his derision toward Jews who are less religious, and the thing about it that bothers me most is this: it gives Gentiles reading this forum a negative impression of (some) Jews as being judgmental and intolerant.

To provide balance to that, I have, as you know, become affiliated with the local Chabad chapter. The Rabbi and Rebbetzin are the two most Orthodox Jews I have ever met, and they are completely welcoming of ANY Jew. In fact, the Rabbi has said "a Jew is a Jew," and he makes no distinction as to degree of observance. It is that level of warmth and welcoming that I wish someone like TFF would aspire.

Also, as an aside, I once asked what his name referred to, and I was told TB. I often find those who "return" (like born-again Christians) to be the most judgmental of all. It's like they go overboard with their new-found zeal.
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